Building a Better Last Epoch: Our Commitment to Quality

Lightning Arrow lacks damage support to be uber viable. It was OP during season 1 with the trap skill support, but it got overly nerfed…

Heartseeker is only uber viable, either going zHP with ultra high-end gear or going with the shuriken corruption. both are not ideal in my opinion.

Hail of Arrows has some cool nodes that could scale up its damage, but they have hard caps that prevent it from doing so, which makes this skill barely used. Some examples are Nowhere to hide and Aim for the heart.

Really disappointing that there isnt a specific poll planned for Endgame feedback.

None of the other aspects of the game really matter if I’ve just lost interest in playing because of the poor quality of the Monolith system.

1 Like

Shock wave on flurry is bugged and this impacts my experience considerably since i am a flurry main.
when shock wave is allocated on the rogue skill flurry, the hit box for doing the correct damage is very small. see

Our aim was to make the poll low lift while giving players the opportunity to share specifics with replies, which is frankly more important than anything. Us understanding what skills/passives impact your experience the most is what helps me take that information to the development team to prioritize fixes. Obviously, and I agree, we’d like all the bugs resolved. We’re trying to get there with a little help from you, our Travelers.

This a good call, I will add an Endgame poll as well. Very important. Big woopsie missing this one!

2 Likes

Skill issues impact - often. I’m playing offmeta builds from farest corners of Eterra. And every season several precrafted setups are dumped. ATM - 2 in a row, both are ghostflame/infernal shade necrotic+fire spell dot dmg, bugs and scaling problems in one pot
Some skills are screaming for revisiting, some unique affixes were never tested :sweat:

1 Like

I REALLY like the playstyle of having a shuriken blade shield, ballistas, and lethal mirage. I use the blade shield almost like melee (run up to mobs to kill them, and move away or use Lethal Mirage if I need to heal), and drop ballistas for extra DPS (or be my only DPS) if I need to kite a boss, but I haven’t been able to find the right combination of skills/passives/gear to make this a viable build. It really struggles even at 100c.

I don’t know enough about the game to be able to answer the second question. I’ve asked for assistance with the build from people who know the game better, and they they’ve all pretty much said it’s not viable right now.

The only other builds I’ve played that could go past 200c were ones made by other people. I do sometimes wish there was some visual indicator that would help newbs like me know what nodes in the skill or passive trees that would work best with the nodes I’ve already selected. I’d rather rely more on guidance in-game than from 3rd party resources.

I get what you’re saying & the presence/absence of more multipliers is an issue with regard to balance. But removing them completely (which is effectively what changing them from multiplicative would do) feels like it’d be getting rid of a fairly fundamental part of arpgs. It’d be significantly easier to just make the numbers smaller on the more “problematic” skills & either add them to underpowered skills or make the ones that they do have larger.

Yeah, IMO, in a form, you’d be able to swap the human-form skills in so you can directly cast them if you don’t want to use a shapeshifted skill.

So you can still use expensive skills even if you don’t have the mana.

They want mana to be a resource you care about rather than something that you ignore like in PoE. But yes, lots of builds just find ways to ignore it.

Like Tornado, that the community voted as most wanted to see reworked, 6 years ago. The irony being that I think every other skill on that poll got reworked or touched since then…

Part 2 of wall of text. Acolyte is by far my most played class so I had a lot more to say about all the skills in it as I’ve tried to make every single one of them work at one point or another.

Mage

  • Lightning Blast: Mostly fine. Focal Blast and the channelling node may need some help.
  • Fireball: Suffers from the “only one valid way to spec the skill” problem
  • Snap Freeze: I love the skill, but it does have the recurring issue of there being interesting in concept conversion nodes in the tree that just have no way to be useful (Snap shock and shatter, the nodes behind them are just boring)
  • Static: One of the special few skills that does not have a single more damage multiplier in its entire tree. The only real problem with this skill is that it is completely impossible to scale to any level of usefulness outside early leveling.
  • Disintegrate: This skill needs a lot of help and has needed a lot of help for many years. One of the problems is that there aren’t really any high impact nodes in the tree as far as playstyle goes. Disintegrate is always forced to be the “stand still, pretend you deal damage, and promptly die because the difficult content in this game is not actually playable when standing still even if you had an extra 90% less damage taken”
  • Focus: Everyone’s least favourite mana button. I hate that the vast majority of mana sustain comes from the 1s bonus and/or the cooldown negative mana nodes. I hate that the 1s delay doesn’t care about your cast speed. I hate that the damage nodes are so undertuned and once again, don’t scale with cast speed. I hate that I can’t make a lot of the misc buffs persist for a short duration afterwards. I hate that using it for movement basically cripples the entire class because of how reliant mage is on mana from this one skill. I don’t understand what the additional resistances node is meant to be for.
  • Ice Barrage: Cooldown skill that doesn’t scale with cast speed, and all the interactions with other skills that could have made it actually possible to scale to a playable level were kneecapped with extremely low caps. I think this skill could use a bit of the gathering storm/storm bolt treatment.
  • Arcane ascendance: This skill is a button you can press to ruin all your mana sustain, get yourself killed by being unable to dodge anything, and occupy one of your spec slots. In exchange you get: less %increased spell damage than a t5 affix on a staff. Why?
  • Enchant Weapon: Why is every single random low damage proc in the tree capped at 1 per second? Why are they all also low chance to proc? Why are they basically impossible to scale to even kill trash mobs? The worst part of caps like these is that the chance is already very low, which forces you to build tons more attack speed to avoid unlucky streaks just to get the listed value on the node. Also the desperation node still grants %increased melee elemental damage instead of %more.
  • Firebrand: Good utillity, damage still very much lacking.
  • Runebolt: This is a 100% damage effectiveness spell with no ability to multi hit, heavy point taxes, and no places to put those points to get damage. The only purpose of this skill is setting an order for invocations and giving you some mana. The base damage could be multiplied by 5 and nobody would even be able to notice a difference.
  • Runic invocation: Extremely annoying to work with due to weirdness with input buffering. Almost no useful scaling on the whole tree. The Interlude and Prologue nodes which are quite cool are blocked behind Stride to Safety which makes the skill functionally useless due to messing up the cast time so badly. Some of the invocations don’t work properly as well, like antipode of the rune slinger not getting any benefit from the runic invocation tree (antipode spams rune bolt which deals negative damage and doensn’t even scale with cast speed, it doesn’t need to be punished any more)

Sentinel

  • Lunge: It’s just not good for movement due to target requirement, not good for damage because numbers are tiny, paranoia makes the hitboxes bug out.
  • Mainfest Armor: So forever ago I remember you guys had said that eventually every single unique item effect would work for manifest armour. It has been like 5 years, not a single one has been added and we still can’t even tell which modifiers work and which ones don’t.
  • Ring of Shields: This continues with the trend of adding random nodes to make a utillity skill deal damage, but giving them numbers so low you have to squint to see if they are working.
  • Smelter’s Wrath: I’ve tried to like this skill so many times. The charge speed interactions with aoe and per second scalings are so frustrating to deal with. Accidentally rolling aoe on your gear basically cripples your entire build and of course, the actual aoe of the skill doesn’t go up either. The payoff for all the effort this skill takes to set up and then waiting 3ish seconds to fully charge is less damage than any of the competitors (due to being on forge guard mostly)

Rogue

  • Flurry: Damage issues, the canceling of 3rd strike on movement is really annoying too since it forces you to not buffer movement after attacks and that will get you killed.
  • Acid Flask: Severe damage issues.
  • Puncture: Severe damage issues.
  • Cinder Strike: Damage issues, but actually fairly close to being good. Only really needs a few of the useless tree nodes swapped to more damage.
  • Umbral Blades: The recall does not have the throwing tag, and is blocked from scaling with throwing attack speed. This one detail is the sole reason the only way people use this skill is by proccing it with something else and it makes me very sad. I have tried to make this one work as direct cast quite a few times and it always hits that point where 70% of your character’s time is spent locked in the recall animation.
  • Multishot: Mana cost is just too high for what it is. It’s a simple fire arrows in a cone bow skill with low damage.
  • Dark Quiver: I don’t mind this skill’s concept but the interactions it has with other skills need to be way more impactful to make it worth all the effort of trying to see the arrows through visual clutter.
  • Heartseeker: The dex scaling node is extremely underwhelming due to the effects of the 66% minimum chance node and the 0.8x chance decay factor. Even at 10 times the current value of recurve chance per dex it would be underwhelming. I think it would be better to just make that node give %more damage because it’s extremely misleading in its current state.
  • Detonating arrow: I was really sad when I saw the %mana node get capped so low. Like I understand you guys are scared of players being able to scale their damage but why does it stop at 400 mana? Could we at least get these caps set to values that require more than 2 items equipped to reach?

Primalist

  • Gathering Storm: The tree is just a bit underwhelming overall and the confusion of when you are actually getting the flat damage per attunement vs different attunement scaling is a problem.
  • Thorn Totem: Damage issues.
  • Tempest Strike: The rework is neat, but it still has the same identity crisis as old tempest strike.
  • Serpent Strike: Desperately needs some tools in its tree to scale hit damage.
  • Spriggan Form: Spirit thorns deals no damage and has no scaling (the relic that is meant to make them usable just doesn’t do anywhere near enough)

Swarmblade Form

Massive identity crisis. Armblade slash, dive, and swarm strike all feel really good to use (visuals, sounds, ranges, timings, etc) but they have essentially zero support on the tree. The serpent strike tree is a bad joke for hit based setups (and swarmblade form really wants you to be going crit) The locust swarm is annoying to work with due to its hyper reliance on the bleed node + needing to micromanage the worst part of the entire form: locusts.

Locusts at baseline have 150% damage effectiveness 1.38/s default attacks. There is only one source of scaling for them and it does not change the damage (double damage, half max locusts). Both the locusts and the hives are far too squishy to use in any content. Anyone who is reading this, I challenge you to place down a hive during uber abberoth. See how many locusts it manages to spawn and how long those locusts survive even with tons of investment into minion defences.

I don’t know how to make swarmblade good, but I hate it as it is right now.

Some random locust related suggestions:

  • In the desert area there are the ranged spitter locust enemies. Add a node to swarmblade tree to make those spawn instead of normal locusts.
  • Also in the desert area there are the really big beetle enemies. Add a node that spawns those instead of hives, limit to like 1/5th max locust count or something.
  • Add nodes that cause locusts to do things when you attack. Like on melee attacking with armblade slash the locusts should all be forced to use an attack (potentially bypassing limits from their attack speed)
  • Some kind of way to grant stat buffs to locusts based on player stats? Not sure exactly what but swarmblade pulls you in too many directions, it needs to do something to help you along with scaling it.

Walking tornado shaman was one of my least fav builds of S3. (20+ builds)
Ghost Flame warlock probably gonna be in same spot in S4. Sustain is good, but dmg is bad, esp single target. Weaker than Disintegrate sorc :sweat:

I think the main issue right now is the insane gap in scaling between classes and builds.
A Falconer in random blue gear can smoothly kill Uber Abby while some other classes can’t reach even half that power with absurd investment. At that point it starts feeling like certain builds are just playing a different game.
You can also see it in class distribution. 39% of players are on Bladedancer after the rework, around 20% on Void Knight, and if you look at the few Necromancers pushing high corruption, almost all of them run the exact same Abomination setup with copy-pasted gear. That’s usually a sign that experimentation barely exists because most alternatives simply don’t scale enough to compete.
There’s where frustration for many people may start. Why struggle through every pack on one build when another build teleports around oneshotting the entire screen and melting bosses at the same time?
But there’s another side to it too. If your build already deletes Uber Abby instantly, what are you even farming for afterwards? There’s barely any motivation to gear another build when:
your current character already trivializes the game,
and most alternative builds feel dramatically worse instead of just different.
It won’t be fun for people who just oneshotted uber Abby to fight him with smth else for 10 minutes.

Another issue is how mandatory some item and skill interactions feel. Synergy is important, obviously, but some skills are so underwhelming on their own that they only function inside one specific setup. It stops feeling like build creation and starts feeling like solving a preset equation.
Also damage conversion is an interesting yet unfinished imo part of the game. For example there are some interesting uniques like Nightbringer which gives you extra void damage as a marksman, but you basically don’t have any ways to improve it further. None of the rogue’s skills can be converted to void, the only void affix you may apply to bow is void penetration.
I wish some items would get more love like Leviathan Carver, this weapon looks like a pure brutality, a badass two-handed sword similar to the one Guts from Berserk wielded. But if we look at unique 2h weapons, we almost every time choose world splitter because it has 3 mana scalings (which becomes even more sad because there are heavily mana dependant skills like smelter’s wrath or forge strike, which are clunky to use). Scalings like world splitter has, limits the usage of other items.
I’m not saying every build should be equal. Some builds being stronger is normal. But the gap right now is way too big. With growing upgrade mechanics like idol altars, corrupting items, future things, only really heavy invested characters should kill apex threats of the game easily and fast, and the balance gaps shouldn’t be that big.

1 Like

Rampage from werebear form , stopping to every small pebble/rock/dent in the pavement . Annoying .

Bring back the days where skills like AoD actually did damage was 0.7 if i remember well . I want to see this kill uber aby as main source of damage.
The necromancer rework is just a joke at this point only abom is viable. To be honest some reword were no where the community wanted that mastery to be. And talking 1k corruption viable.

An 8 click poll is pretty low lift. A poll that doesn’t capture options a participant might select makes the polling seem low effort or isolates those people from participating. It’d be better to capture a more granular picture of the issues. If it resulted in less poll participation, I don’t think that’d be bad as you’d likely have more enthusiastic participants. You could get a better at a glance view of actionable items. Doing a small poll with options that aren’t clear and then asking for broader response I think makes things far muddier.

Another thing is the lack of clarity or effort in the poll makes people not want to participate in it or even further. Most of the replies I’ve seen are in response to the poll quality. Even being gracious and including most replies to this post it seems like less than 10% of poll participants even gave proper feedback.

Lastly, people are fatigued of giving feedback in long form. Expecting feedback in that manner is naive, imo. You’d be better off scouring the numerous posts, comments, videos, etc. that were made over the past 2-3 years as most of those issues remain. Prior CT feedback, reddit posts, feedback posts, suggestions, content creator videos are all great sources for this exact feedback.

Neither of locust swarm’s conversions work properly; the cold one has only been converting the physical half since 0.9 making it difficult to scale, and the minion one breaks all expected scaling (loses all attribute scaling, no longer gets any locust swarm damage modifiers from the skill tree).

Since locust swarm is my favorite skill in the game, this is what affects me most, but there are definitely tons of unintuitive behaviors that aren’t explained in game and many broken skill nodes as well. I don’t think I could list them all without significant effort, but I do bug report them as I find them. Seems hit-or-miss whether they get addressed.

Would have voted on all 4 options in first section if I could.

Skills I specifically use and would like looked at:

EXPLOSIVE TRAP TREE
1 - Explosive trap, you nerfed the acid flask chance from 100% to 10%. It’s no longer usable with acid flask.
2 - Explosive trap detonating arrow node - you capped it at 10 per 2 seconds. I have tested last 2 seasons extensively with awesome gear it’s just no longer playable. You nerfed this same time as eye of reen which was the issue causing old builds to be over powered. You should remove the cap and this skill will NOT be over powered but will once again be fun to play and potentially end game viable
3 - Explosive trap even with -10 or -12 throwing reduction still needs to be about 8 mana less in cost.

HAMMER THROW TREE
1 - the bottom left is useless. Ignite nodes on the tree are terrible too they should be replaced with bleed nodes. Very high chance, phys pene/damage nodes - the bottom left of the tree should be all bleed and the stun stuff should be moved to the right more.
2 - most people love to play bleed with this skill as do i but there are no bleed related nodes in the tree and sentinel has them spread out in pally and FG.
3 - spiral hammers are fun and great early game, converted to bleed later are good you can scale pretty high but bossing is terrible with hammer even using echoes. Would be cool to see the damage nodes pushed a lot higher in the tree, especially compared to shield throw bleed which applies over 10k bleeds on a dummy vs hammers which do 1000-1500.
4: The void aura for 2 seasons I have tried to scale this even with crazy imprinted items last season it’s just kinda meh. Not sure why it’s there.

RIVE
1 - dmg effectiveness needs to be about 250% not 125.
2 - Rive needs its base crit as a whole not for each strike
3 - Rive needs more AOE - compare it to ES and WP which have 10x the AOE and tons more damage and more specific gear for builds. They map better they boss better they level better people quit rive this season because of omen windows being insane to do with rive.
4 - Rives node that doubles dmg with a 2H should also be the same with dual weild I am sick of having to use 2H for certain skills when dual is so cool

SHIELD THROW
1 - Needs more pure phys nodes on the right. Fire damage with this skill is far to strong and if we play it as classic shield throw there’s no comparison. I would love the top left gone as the only node people use is 1 point to bounce shield off allies.
2 - The top left should be replaced with pure physical nodes like the bottom left has tons of fire dmg. Top left should be phys pene, pure phys for throwing etc.
3 - When you throw your shield you lose 20 resistances is CRAZY no other class/skill in the game has anything this wild, why is it even a thing? My shield doesnt give me +20 when I’m holding it why would it take -20 when I throw it?
4 - MOST IMPORTANT ASKED FOR A YEAR - please make shield throw, once pierced ricochet off terrain. The new idols are a good start but terrain is vital for single target and would be amazing for positioning bosses in fights like abby/uber near walls where they always end up.

ACID FLASK
1 - Poision flask is a joke. I have posted threads and suggestions about this. Poision puddles only works with traps, you nerfed traps. It’s no longer playable and even when it was it was so weak you didn’t want to use it. The whole poision tree needs re-doing. Tons more chance, more speed to apply, more dmg.
2 - Poision effect, plague bearer staff - plague - that melting effect is how poison should look from acid flask, its how it looks in POE2 from Poison concotion which is the same thing. There I can clear all content and bosses but here it’s some forgotten skill you convert to fire only because as usual you’ve made fire stronger than all other elements.
3 - Redo poison flask or rename it fireflask, honestly. Un-nerf poision and make it able to melt enemies and clear all content. Needs big aoe, spreading effect, flat dmg for initial hits, much higher dots, more applications etc

SMELTERS WRATH/FORGE STRIKE/PASSIVE TREE
1 - I have seen a lot of chat about these in game and on forums/reddit and the majority of people seem to dislike these skills as do I. FG is this 2H weilding tank class that should have massive MELEE attacks not some casting anvil from the sky POE2 lameness or some weird channelling caster type skill. BIG melee/aoe/high damage skills should be there.
2 - Manifest armor is slow and clunky, dies a lot and does average damage when compared to other minions. It needs a lot of love. Its weapon should scale off ALL weapons FG uses and get to use special affixes on those weapons. This should be at an amplified % of the weapon. It needs more survivablity.
3 - FG passive tree is horrible. It needs 2H multipliers for damage. 2H and shield needs to have haste to block REMOVED. It shouldn’t slow attack speed. It should be FULL effect as per normal. FG - 1% of people play it you know this. Its because its other classes are so much better. More dmg multipliers, leech, attack speeds etc.
4 - FG needs more damage nodes. Less block nodes. Crit/attackspeed/dmg with 2Hers.

ROGUE SKILLS
Flurry / Puncture - both seem in need of a refresh for more build options.

It’s good to see these kinds of posts popping up. The dev team should really be doing this every season just to see if something you weren’t aware of is posted.

I’m commenting specifically on the acolyte since I gave up on it at some point in season 2 because many of the minions were too frail and died to everything even in early corruption. The changes you made to necromancer minions don’t look like much when we read it on the patch notes, but when you actually play the game, the difference is huge. You can take summon skeletons to 1k corruption now. I just beat Aberroth this week with summon skeletons and unimpressive gear. Honestly, I couldn’t believe it. The changes you made didn’t seem like they would be big enough when reading the patch notes. So good job with that.

A suggestion for the future, in this topic and on the forums, you can find people saying necromancer minions are shit. This isn’t the case anymore, yet people still say it. When you make future balance changes and those changes aren’t being accepted as being enough on the forums. Show some videos with the changed skills in action, explain the different build types that will be able to work. Try to help and educate the naysayers. If you fix a problem but public perception is that the problem isn’t fixed, does it matter that you fixed it?

Wandering Spirits

  • Infectious Dead and Flames of Midnight do not convert Drained Will and Sins of the Forgotten
  • Spirit Swarm CDR is too low for the number of skill points required

Transplant

  • Ethereal Body and Frozen Form do not convert Hemophilia
  • Fleeting Form CDR is too low for the skill points cost

Summon Volatile Zombie

  • Horrific Vessels does not convert poison (but Flammable VItae does!? And Repulsive Vomit is converted!?!?)

Hungering Souls

  • Unclear why Caustic Wretches adds Poison chance instead of Damned
  • Fire Skull converts Possess to Ignite instead of Spreading Flames?
  • Fire Skull does not convert Poison??

Summon Bone Golem

  • Putrid Coating is not converted by anything?

Spirit Plague

  • Haemorrhage and Toxic Transmission make zero sense
  • Why is Plague Bearer an extra ailment instead of conversion and convert Plague of Eyes?

Infernal Shade

  • Blood Shade should convert Combustion

Summon Skeletal Mage

  • Why is Putrid Essence Poison at baseline??
  • Death Knights should convert Putrid Essence to something else also
  • Flaming Attacks should be a partial or total conversion on top of added melee damage
  • Missing a source for lightning conversion

Sacrifice

  • Physical damage at baseline makes almost no sense
  • Why is there no fire conversion after Altar of Flames??

Summon Wraith

  • Makes precisely zero sense that full conversion requires Idols. Supremely inconsistent with every other minion skill and philosophical first principles for this design couldn’t be found even in the landfill.
  • Conversions do not convert Serrated Scythes?? Also why is Serrated Scythes Bleed at baseline???
  • Why doesn’t the conversion also convert Wraithlord!?
  • Why does Army of Wraiths cap at 3 (6 summons per cast)?
  • Stygian River is way too weak for the skill points cost.

Drain Life

  • Virulence does not convert Damned

Aura of Decay

  • Why can’t Poison Nova and Defiling Nova get converted?

Soul Feast

  • Why the hell is Hellmind behind Poisoned Husks???
  • Why doesn’t Bloodfeast convert anything else???
  • Why cap Infernal Hunger at 3? And why is cooldown 2sec and not affected by CDR?

Chthonic Fissue

  • Valley of Defilement and Blood Gulch should convert Torment (e.g., to Acid Skin and Decrepify respectively)
  • Why not allow Chaotic Rupture go up to 100% and apply penalty other ways (e.g. mana cost? frequency?)

Reaper Form

  • Needs a way to go permanent in return for e.g., build investment cost into life or mana or ward sustain

Assemble Abomination

  • Noxious Stench is a bit underwhelming vs other options available
  • Reap the Damned should be affected by Wraith conversion
  • Shattered Simulacrum should be affected by Golem conversion
  • Dead Eye should be affected by Skeletal Archer conversion
  • Corrupt Palate should be affected by Skeletal Mage conversion
  • Bloated Corpse should be affected by Volatile Zombie conversion
  • Spoils of War should be affected if Pebbles is equipped

Dread Shade

  • Missing obvious options to convert Physical and Fire

Bone Curse

  • Misery does not convert Cloven Flesh
  • Missing obvious option to convert Cold

General

  • Fire or Necrotic skills with conversion require option support to partial convert.
  • If further 2-element combinations are supported in the future, skills require option support to partial convert.
1 Like

My gripes with skills so far…

  • Bugged interactions (both with terrain and with each other; case in point: projectiles vs. destructibles like barrels in the Ruined Era; traps being thrown in a fan-out fashion instead of being tightly clustered around the cursor, often ending up in non-traversable areas; Totemic Grove spending mana but not spawning totems; etc.)
  • Lack of proper damage-type conversions (case in point: rogue is OVERWHELMINGLY physical with too few viable options; sometimes conversions don’t take ailments into proper consideration or drop them altogether - Acid Flask as an example)
  • Charge-up skills being largely hazardous to use or flat-out obsolete in high-corruption or otherwise dangerous situations (cases in point: Puncture, Detonating Arrow)
  • Channeled skills often lacking proper support outside of their own trees (case in point: Flurry)
  • Skill’s fundamental design often being its own worst enemy (cases in point: Dancing Strikes, Smelter’s Wrath, Harvest, Gathering Storm, Dark Quiver, Decoy)
1 Like