This sentence is a contradiction. There aren’t any good Sentinel builds without VR. Sentinel is one of the worst classes in the game completely propped up by VR. Which is why we needed a complete rework. Even with VR Sentinel did mediocre damage but choosing not to use it and more than double your damage isn’t an option. You needed to use VR or you’re just ignorantly choosing to have a bad build. (which is why it was reworked)
It will be great now finally Sentinel can make builds without VR. Just hope Sentinel got enough massive buffs so they can be viable and competitive. For clarity viable and competitive standard is farming 700-1,000 corruption since you need a build that can comfortably do that.
The Sentinel rework looks great so far and hoping with set crafting they can maximize some fun builds that can finally be tanky and compete with Meta builds farming. Them fixing Shield throw function might be finally able to make a build there now but they need to buff it’s damage by 150% and give it more damage support.
The symbol of hope rework looks great now too and basically gives Sentinel a flame ward which Sentinel desperately needed some defensive layers. At least they can pop that while attacking and have an oh crap button. Since rebuke is trash because it’s channeled. (would love for that to be reworked)
I don’t recall normal players demanding a way to go directly to the julra or any of the other dungeon bosses. Is 1.5-3 minutes so terrible? Slippery slope, just like the mastery respec.
I do, plenty of people enjoy the slamming mechanics, and even as a casual you get dozens of 1lp items if you use a common one. but sometimes you just dont have the energy to go through 20 minutes of dungeons for 4-5 slams. 1.5-3m seems fast, i take around 5 minutes.
Yes players actually want to just skip awful Julra and the annoying Dungeons all together. No one wants to do a dungeon 100’s of times just for slams every season and spend 100’s of hours just to craft. I have a dream where I never do Temporal Sanctum again. I can’t say enough bad things about it.
There should be a Legendary forge unlock and once it’s unlocked you can just slam your items at the end of time.
It’s such a huge turn off to do this badly designed content over and over again countless times forever. It’s annoying design. Make it stop! Usually items just sit in my storage because I can’t bring myself to do Julra again. It definitely makes people uninstall.
Then add in the fact there are disconnects, bugs, it just is an infuriating design that I hope they can get right at some point.
Again the Solution - Having a Legendary forge next to the woven set crafting etc will just get people into doing what they should be doing which is farming bases/gear they can slam instead of wasiting time doing monotonous dungeons.
Firstly, “I’m good” is a saying. It means “I won’t/don’t have any issues” for example: In a meeting you might be asked, “ABomb, do you have anything you want to bring up?” and you could say “no, I’m good.” you’re not saying “no, I’m better than you.” you’re saying “no, I don’t have any problems to bring up.”
Secondly, a build being “good” is entirely subjective. What’s good to you might be S-Tier to me. What’s good to me might be F-Tier to you. For me, a build is good if it can clear 300 Corruption without major difficulties. To you, a build might not be “good” unless it can kill Abby in 26.25 seconds or faster. Personally, I’ve never used VR on any of my Paladin or Forge Guard builds and never had any problems. Could they have been better with VR? Probably, but they didn’t need VR to function to my standards.
You already could make builds without VR, plenty of people did this. We’ve been over this before.
For you, that’s the viable and competitive standard. Other people, like me, don’t care if they never reach 400 corruption with a build.
I mist admit, I’m a trifle surprised, I thought you were a skilled enough player to do Julra in a few seconds. I didn’t realise that it was too difficult for you.
You do realise that if you keep on telling him that he’ll just block you like he does everyone else that doesn’t agree with him.
Actually it’s just pretty simple, can it do all the content comforatably. Bosses, Ubers and farm mid corruption of 700-1,000.
If a build can’t do all the content comfortably it’s a bad build. It’s really not subjective. You can play MEME builds because you enjoy them but they objectively aren’t good. Which is okay.
Nope sure can’t. It doesn’t exist. Sentinel is one of the worst classes and is held together by VR. Sentinel does bad damage with VR. Not having the massive mulitplier in your build means you are making a MEME build.
Now if you want to say I made a MEME build without VR, it’s bad but I had fun with it then cool. You are choosing to just do significantly worse damage without VR hence why it’s a MEME.
It’s just the standard of the games design. It’s what the community has established overall as required. If you enjoy MEME builds at low corruption and never really play the rest of the game that is fine.
A build that can only do 300-400 corruption though isn’t a complete viable build. It’s equivalent to making a build in D2 that can only beat nightmare. You never get to the final difficulty, do Dclone, Ubers and actually have a build that can play and farm gear on players 8. (ARPG players quantify builds that can farm ALL the content key word farm)
Again I’d have less issues with your statements if you said I’ve made some MEME builds without VR implying that they aren’t any good or viable which is fine. It can be some fun to create a MEME build and see if you can make it viable but it never happens because they are MEMEs
Sentinel class as a whole is a MEME which is why it needed a total rework. VR was the only reason Sentinel barely functioned. Thats how trash the class was. This isn’t a debate, we can rejoice and hope Sentinel rework is massive enough to finally allow them to have build diversity and make viable/competitive builds.
No, we don’t need to ‘circumvent’ that content, that would be the height of nonsense… EHG needs to finally get the dungeon rework going. They got a dozen construction sites at once which should’ve all been handled by 1.0 but here we are and they get flak for stuff that shouldn’t have been in that state for a release candidate.
What do you mean ‘you can’t strafe’?
You either have ‘A’ and ‘D’ as buttons to strafe… or you got tank-controls where the direction your character looks is adjusted.
And if EHG did tank controls then they’re a lost cause anyway. That would be the most idiotic (I can only find harsher words, not milder ones, sorry) implementation since many many years in a game.
So yes, we either have strafe or a useless mechanic that’ll be a detriment vastly beyond not implementing or even thinking about it at all.
I’m on ABomb’s side here.
It has nothing to do with Julra herself, Julra is fine.
It’s the content leading to Julra which is both a time-waste and bore beyond end. Nothing challenges you and you simply get stopped by arbitrary barriers which have no meaning since nothing’s a danger in there anyway.
Oldschooldiablo pointed out that Judd explained on Reddit (instead of the official forums, of course) that it’s going to work like D4/Chronicon. Which is where I said
So, basically, I have 0 faith that WASD will be implemented in a way where Mouse Control remains a viable alternative, the Mastery Respec made me lose the majority of motivation I had towards making multiple characters (I still don’t understand how leveling a Paladin to 100 makes me a lv 100 Forge Guard and Void Knight since, as EHG said time and time again “the Mastery is your class.” so if I leveled a Sentinel to 100 shouldn’t I also have a lv 100 Primalist, Rogue, Mage, and Acolyte? /s
At this point I’m more interested in Titan Quest 2. It also has WASD, technically, by rebinding the arrow keys to WASD, and I’ve already seen complaints about how it works in the forums from the playtests, but at least it had WASD from the start and wasn’t hamfisted into the game while ignoring problems people have been asking to be fixed (like unfinished classes???) since launch.
Edit: @Llama8 this was a reply to you, but it dropped your quote for some reason lol.
Just woke up when I posted, I meant can’t kite while attacking. If they’re using chronicon method you can’t move while attacking. So even if you can aim in any direction and move in any direction, you stop moving as soon as you start attacking. It’s still better than mouse control, but not significantly.
Buddy, people can play games however they want. They don’t need to fit into your arbitrary definitions of what good vs meme means. No one, and I mean no one, has ever said “you need to farm all content in the game with a build for it to be viable” except you. That’s why specialized builds exist, for one, and if a player only cares about clearing the campaign each season they don’t need a build that can farm 1,000c. Meme builds aren’t builds that aren’t competitively viable, they’re builds that work despite everything saying they shouldn’t. If John ARPG found a Sentinel build that could farm 1000c without picking a Mastery and using Retribution as the primary skill due to some broken interaction. It would be a meme build despite being, by your standards, “competitively viable.”
You also don’t need to use VR to be viable. Again, some of the top builds for Sentinel didn’t use it. We’ve gone over this before in another thread where DJ and I pulled numbers off the Leaderboards (the only consistent way to track build viability) and there were plenty of builds w/o VR outperforming other builds that did use VR. Sometimes the build they put together didn’t have room for it, there’s only 5 specialization slots after all, just because you’re not skilled enough to play without it doesn’t mean other people aren’t.
Ahhh, animation lock.
Yeah, that was to be expected, otherwise they would need a full system to handle that after all.
In LE kinda ‘yes’ though… since the game was specifically set up for that case.
If he would talk about PoE 1 though I would say ‘hard no’ given that the variety in content is massive and you can tailor your character for specific content properly. In PoE 2 as well… but less so since simply less avenues are available.
But in LE? All content is kinda same-y for that reason, which is a design decision which I deem a net negative as it hampers creative implementations quite heavily.
So, if you had no intentions of farming Abberoth, your build wouldn’t be viable unless it was capable of farming Abberoth? What if you had no desire to farm 700-1000c like ABomb says you is the standard. Would a build that’s designed to farm 600c not be viable?
Edit: a build is viable if it does what it’s designed to do effectively. If I design a build for clearing the campaign and normal monoliths and then swap to my build designed for progressing through to 1000c then both builds are equally viable. Unless the 2nd build fails at 800c then it wasn’t viable for 1000c but is viable for 800c and below
But in LE the content is set up in a way your character is only ‘viable’ when it can do all of it. You need to do the Echos after all and you also need to be a decent bosser to progress.
Hence Aberroth as the last actually presented content in the game which is not really ‘aspirational’ (hence needing extreme investment and dedication) is to be able to be beaten. If your character can’t reliably do it (your character, not you with your skill, hence reliably, offering the reasonable ability to do so) then it’s ‘not viable’.
Aberroth was the best thing for viability benchmarks to introduce from EHG, despite being implemented simply at the wrong time though.
The official stance of ‘your character is decent when able to reach 300c’ has hence been cemented into the game with a distinct challenge upon reaching that level, and anything not able to beat that challenge is simply not ‘up to par’.
Any notion of something being not viable if it can’t go significantly beyond is nonsensical though, there is no content, just scaled rewards.
Unlike mono bosses, Aby isn’t tied to your character. You can perfectly farm 300c monos to your heart’s content and it will be a viable build. Then you make a specialized boss killing build to deal with Aby and it will be viable if it can kill Aby reliably.
Not being able to kill Aby doesn’t make a build not viable because Aby doesn’t lock any content behind it. Just some uniques which, while desirable, are not build enabling.
So, as you said, a build is viable if it can do the endgame loop successfully. And that means 300c is perfectly viable, since everything else past that is just difficulty/reward scaling.
EHG has stated once again that a build that can do 300c is successful (they did avoid the term viable), meaning that any that can’t reach 300c will definitely need a boost, while builds that reach 300c might or might not need a boost (or a nerf is they overperform).
Aby is aspirational content currently because Aby doesn’t have anything that you need to enable and progress your character. It’s basically just for the amulet chase for your BiS slot.
With 1.2, this might change when Aby becomes more accessible and effectively gating Uber Aby access behind it. At that point, I might argue that Aby might effectively become a benchmark of a viable build.
But the fact that you can always switch to a specialized build for Aby/Uber Aby makes it so that mono farming builds will still be viable even if they can’t kill regular Aby.
This is what I was getting at with ABomb. Specialized builds for pushing harder content are fine and dandy, but as long as it can do at least 300c it’s a successful/viable build. Pushing a build to its limits is player dependent. And I guarantee that pre-rework VR is not required for any build to reach 300c lol
There really is no point in arguing with Abomb. He’s entitled and arrogant and, while he represents the gamer mentality of the top 1% of players, he believes the game revolves around him and everyone is the same.
He doesn’t engage with arguments. His position is set in stone and everything he does is tell you that’s the way things are. And if you keep arguing, he’ll just lose patience and block you.
Because he doesn’t want to engage or acknowledge other people’s points of view. He just wants the game to accomodate him, even if most players aren’t like him and wouldn’t like that.
A build that can only do 300 c hasn’t really played the game yet. You haven’t even started pushing corruption. Again that’s like playing D2 and only beating Nightmare and saying it’s viable. You still have another difficulty and a lot more content to get into.
I’m not talking about limits though, we are talking about standards/viable. The community knows that if they are going to farm you need to be at 700-1,000 corruption as a standard. Key word standard. That is the average corruption any build wants to get to so you can actually enjoy and get into the end game.
We aren’t talking about pushing and doing 1,500 or 3k+ corruption etc and trying to see the upper limits and be the 1% of players. We are talking about the average corruption you want a build to be playing at is 700-1,000. It’s the gold standard. It’s how the game is designed.
Sentinel has been the worst class in the game pre-rework VR and it’s overhaul. That’s why it was essential to fix this terrible class and all of it’s skills and passives. Again if you make a Sentinal build and don’t use VR that is just a mistake and you are making a bad MEME build. This is why EHG had to fix it because there was no choice but to use VR because it is where most of Sentinels damage comes from.
At least Sentinel hopefully won’t be so bad now EHG finally fixing this broken Class and giving it the love it should of always had.
