Then you don’t understand how it works. If you have drop rates which are decent (and good crafting), and then you add trading on top of that, your APRG will go dead as players get everything they want nearly instantly.
If you don’t want players to get BiS gear instantly, then you have to nerf drop rates, and then SSF players get hosed and trading becomes mandatory and you’re back to option 1.
This is what you’re not getting.
Oh I understand the issue.
That is the same issue of balancing trading.
No doubt you have to do that right, which isn’t an easy task, but I don’t believe you have to decrease drop rates to a point where you hurt SSF players. You might, if you have a low item base. I do think it can be countered by having a wider item base… just one of the factors.
As the game stand right now, with the crafting system and the number of items/drop rates I can have everything I want in a very short time. That will be fixed in the future I hope.
Yes please. Bazaar and Auction House are the best.
Don’t make me go to other players’ hideouts like in PoE.
None of them when they detract from the action. Trading is a bi-polar system that expects some sort of give-and-take and personal interaction.
LE’s foundation is in single/SSF modes for now. As that shifts to the MP mode being released, the player base will need to experience the MP changes before any item exchange system can be implemented. Some players want no interactions outside of the party they join.
Limited restrictions suck, restricting all drops sucks, Bind on pickup sucks, bind on equipping sucks. These limiters are there to prohibit “manipulation” of the items, duping, and other negative results, but often affect the lower end of the player base. The lower end of the player base is those who fall in three general categories
Item elitism: If you have everything you need then why play anymore. If I can go to the store and grab any item off the AH shelf then why play.
You are touching on different points.
The point that you comment on and disagree upon was that the auction house isn’t the most convenient way of trading.
If you have trading, disregarding LE status, itemization, balancing… which is the most convenient way of doing that? (trading) again not taking into account the balancing.
Now to your points…
Right.
Ill just say that these systems goal should absolutly not be to combat duping. There should be other systems for that.
And yes, I generally agree to not restrict.
You can’t have every player equal. If one is more skillfull or can put more time there is no way around that that player will see more progress.
That is correct. I didn’t login to the game for a while because there is nothing I need to progress.
And in the context of auction house, that is why there is development needed before you incorprate trade. (That is why I gave an example of adding more items, unqiues etc in the list in the original post)
So that the items will be different enough so you can’t just find exactly what you need there.
This is more of a social component not gaming capability comment. If players do not have time to engage in the AH system then they put themselves at a disadvantage. Some players have social disabilities that cause interactions with others that may not full comprehend what they possess, put in highly stressful situations or become full of anxiety when interacting with the mechanics. So by not taking those things into consideration you violate a couple gaming creeds with regards to open access. It is not about equality it is about making sure there is equal opportunity. Adding more items and content comes overtime, ask any PoE vet we have seen it go from a few usable items, then balloon so bad we pick nothing up and do not bother with trading divination cards that give item level 100 that will still roll a crap t11 mana and 2 low stat suffixes. There is no such thing as balance, but fairness and equal opportunity that is the main objective.
What about the people who enjoy trade, should they suffer because of people who don’t have time to trade?
You can pretty much apply that to every aspect of the game, what about people who don’t have time to run monoliths?
What do you think of LE right now in this regard? I personally pick around 1% of the items (maybe less?) and its not going to be better by adding more items.
I don’t think that has anything to do with the discussion, as you said, items will come gradually over time. they will do that regardless of trading so I failed to catch your point there.
i find the drop rates to be a problem. finding an exalted item which is the right base type with a useful affix is very , very rare.
i’m in empowered monos right now, for the first time, and so far i’m just not finding many useful items. in fact, my first character into monos has yet to find an item that can replace an item already have equipped.
but i, LE is in beta, so i’m happy to be patient and see how things go.
Let me preface what follows by saying that all of the below is my own personal opinion. Please do not take any of it as an attack, as none of it is intended to be. If anything comes across as such, I apologize in advance.
We absolutely do not know that. It may be a preferred method of trading for some folks, but that’s a far cry from making it the best method. While I, as a general rule, prefer not to trade, when I do engage in it, I prefer a barter system that requires direct contact between players. The problem with those is that, inevitably, the player base tends to forget that barter is a give and take, not just " this is what I want so I’ll report you as a scammer if you offer anything less".
We’ll simply have to disagree here. As others have pointed out, one of the defining characteristics of an ARPG game is the basic game play loop of kill bad guys and rifle through their pockets. Trading isn’t, in any way, an integral part of what makes an ARPG an ARPG. In reality, it’s little more than a shortcut around a large part of what defines an ARPG.
What’s “special” about an auction house? I’m genuinely curious to know what you find special about it.
Respectfully, there’s no way around that that I can see. This effect may be minimal upon initial implementation of a trading system, but over time supply grows to the point that trading will forever be the place to get upgrades. The only idea I’ve ever seen come close to combating this trend is precisely what EHG are currently planning, randomizing which player’s wares you can see and not making it searchable, and eschewing direct player to player trade (with obvious in group exceptions).
Respectfully, EHG. They designed a game play loop that does not involve trading, which one would tend to conclude means they wanted a loop without trading. You’d be hard pressed to convince me that this was an oversight on their part. I certainly don’t presume to speak for the developers of the game, but their own words and actions point to an opinion that wildly differs from the one you’ve put forward.
That’s a pretty loose interpretation of what was said. I’ll choose to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a tongue in cheek comment rather than a self serving and deliberate twisting of words.
Again, respectfully, what “experience” is there with an auction house and is it anything worthwhile? I fail to see how searching (either manually or through a search bar) and clicking “BUY NOW” is a worthwhile game play experience. In fairness, though, I’m not one who enjoys trade so that may be the root of my failure to wrap my head around this one.
I will circle back to what I said before. This may be true for the first couple of weeks of an auction house. Time and supply have a directly proportional relationship in every trading system in every game I’ve ever seen with one. The more time passes, the greater the supply. It rapidly reaches a point where you can be all but guaranteed to find what you’re looking for. The only question becomes, are you willing to pay the asking price? Nothing I’ve seen suggested here does anything to negate this, simply to try and slow it a little bit.
You also commented that you didn’t log in for a while due to not needing anything more for you character. How do you see an auction house doing anything but accelerating reaching that point?
Just wanted to pick your brain some more.
Earlier you said trading is way for you to leverage your drops into upgrades for your character. Is that the only reason you want to see trading or is there another aspect of it that you find fun/interesting?
Do you have an example of a game that has done this well?
That point is assuming the number one point in my original comment. Maybe I should have used “most convenient” instead of “best” in the next sentence. Its the way to just do that quickly instead of messaging people and it minimizes scamming.
Ok then, lets disagree here.
An ARPG game that incorporates auction house and trading well doesn’t exist. making it special.
But that statement was about the approach to trading in general.
The idea is to minimize this effect, yes.
Well yeah, the comment was in a game with trading. If they implement trading why isn’t it a part of playing the game.
Sorry? You are not the user I said that too right? why do you speak for him/her?
There was no twist of word here, if I understood correctly we both left for the same reason, which were scammy people and trades.
The experience that trading brings is to the game itself, when you drop a good item or resource and its not for you and you have something to do with it and you can turn it into an item for yourself, for example.
There is also the more direct experience of the trading, yes, where people like to play the economy and hunt for items and the likes, but that was not what I was referring too.
I don’t know if thats mandatory, especially since you will have cycles.
LE have a solo and non solo right now.
POE does that and I believe Diablo does that… so thats 100% of the games that are doing leagues that are doing that… unless I don’t know something.
Important for who? You? Then say ‘it’s important for me’. Because it is not important for me and I even think free trading with AH is very bad. Because no matter how you implement it trading will beat farming by far. And that is sad. Trading should only be a fun feature for those who just like it. I don’t want the feeling that I have to trade like in PoE. No thanks.
And when you make a statement please consider that there’s lots of players who think differently.
You will have the Bazaar where you’ll be able to sell you precious stuff. What else you need?
I don’t know how many times I stated it now in the thread. But ill do that again.
Everything I am writing is my own opinion.
A more direct trading instead of trading with extra steps. I want to be able to trade freely with my friends. There is a lot in this thread on “what else do I need”.
To be fair, Thaelyn is correct. The trade experience and economy are only one reason I left (as I stated in my post). There are others and the others are honestly more important to me, but I felt that largely irrelevant to this discussion.
As for the overall topic about the AH, I think most of what needed to be said has been said. You are interested in a particular solution to a problem that this game has already addressed (inability to obtain specific loot). You like the solution other games have used, yet you want it in a more functional form. Unfortunately, any successful implementation would have greater ramifications (many being negative) as I elaborated on in my initial post in this thread.
I respect your opinion. Of course you can think differently and so can I. I just pointed out that AH trading is only good for flippers, scammers, real money traders etc. You can’t control that and it is gonna go off-scale pretty soon.
Ok but let’s be honest there are two camps - those who want trading and those who don’t. Now with the Bazaar system you who want trading will get at least something but those who don’t like trading at all will suffer because you impose the trading on us. Is it equal approach?
Right, I didn’t say “the only reason that we left”, I bet there are more
I suggested to try, we are in beta.
I personally think that the bazaar approach is so weird and bad… it will just take more time to trade and will consume more of my slaying demons time.
If you are talking about the main camps, those who want trading and those who don’t, lets circle back to why not do SSF and not SSF…which will be an option anyway I assume.
because the devs will have to change number of affixes, drop rate, mods weigthts etc due to the trading and that will affect all the players in all game modes
You’re making an assumption (a reasonable one to be fair) that the presence of the bazaar will require the devs to alter the drop rates when they not, as far as I’m aware made any comments in that vein.
IMO, the bazaar is going to be far enough from a frictionless trade system that they won’t need to adjust the drops. Unfortunately, because it’s going to be so far from a frictionless trade system it’ll be pointless.