Except the devs have said nothing about fresh starts. The only language used officially by EHG is “cycles will start and end with major patches” which implies nothing about refreshes mid cycle, that was your own assumption mate.
Edit:
I’m not talking legacy vs cycle. I’m talking about 1.1 after the refresh compared with a new cycle. Aside from the .1 changing into a fancy little .2 there’s effectively no difference between the cycle refresh and a new cycle.
So, clearly you don’t understand what you’re asking for and you handle that by projecting your insecurities and rage onto me. I mean this with the best of intentions: get help. Talk to a counselor, or a therapist, because you are going through some stuff that I’m not qualified to help you with.
And well, it’s not?
No new major mechanics, just a small scale event which goes away soon.
So nah… not true?
So, if you ignore that aspect of the post it becomes true?
Because if the amount of time is not the issue then it’s solely that it’s been reduced from the minimal expected timeframe.
And who said I’m ok with it ending now?
Where are you literally coming up with that by now? You’re writing ‘something’ but it’s not coherent to my writing in any form anymore.
QoL changes are not mechanics.
Features are expansions of existing mechanics, likely also including mostly QoL or polishing.
Where’s the tell-tale new mechanic which usually comes with a cycle/league and so on?
Not there?
Ah… here we have a problem now.
I literally did, every… single… one.
‘But it’s the same’
I actively listed differences.
‘But you can treat it as if it’s the same’
I actively listed a good chunk of mental aspects playing into that.
So what the actual f are you expecting more?
And literally piss off telling me ‘but you have no reason to be pissed off’ because that’s for me to decide and not you. My lack of ability to adequately word my issues in a perfect manner don’t give you the right to declare them as non-existent.
This is the piss-poor argumentation I’m talking about.
And yeah, it’s fine you having a bad day, no worries about that, but people are throwing - repeatedly - their arguments and points in your face and you act like they don’t exist. Obviously you’ll get flak for that.
Also… your meme was wrongly used, the ‘we have xyz at home’ is a mockery of it being utterly different then what is wanted.
And you’re even saying active arguments why people are annoyed at it.
Yes, it has no balance pass, it has no new mechanic, it has solely QoL and functionality improvements (which should be done mid-cycle without resets of any kind anyway).
What more do you need for it to be reasonable enough to understand that this will obviously cause people to get their torches and pitchforks. That part of the small print clearly wasn’t included anywhere so to say.
Nah.
Sorry to say… but you’re solely belittling people. And that’s disgusting.
And your argument doesn’t even uphold since it can easily be distinguished. As said, which new mechanic? Why is the timeframe hence solely 1 months and not 3? How can it be expected for players which don’t play extensively to reach far into it this way?
It’s quite… quite different and people tell you the whole time and you simply fail to understand it.
Here goes:
It lacks a core mechanic which commonly comes with a new cycle. Be it a re-invention or expansion of the existing systems or instead completely new ones added.
In 1.0 it was Act 9 + Factions. In 1.1 it was Harbinger + Nemesis.
What do we have now?
Yes right, nothing. Just ‘fixes’, nothing actually new. Shrines were poor, whatever those loot lizards are expected to even be, sounds like a simple loot-goblin enemy.
Also the timeframe of the common cycle lifetime this types of games have isn’t upheld. It’s commonly around 3 months, with GGG being the fastest ones on the market while it has turned out that it often leads to qualitative problems… which is why they delay often nowadays to not have broken unplayable servers happening at launch. (Delve and Blight are prime examples of that happening)
The event instead is 1 month. Expecting people to play through the game from scratch and go through the annoying aspects of re-farming several timelines + blessings in a single month is nonsensical.
Which brings us to Legacy.
No, it’s not ‘the same’ either as was already said.
Tabs.
Gold.
Faction standing.
Missing limited framework which gets some people going.
Detailed enough?
Also:
Oh? The Event is a month. Which means we have a bit over 3 months total time when it stops.
2-3 months? Where is it said? I can’t see anything about that.
1 week more then the event? 1 year more then the event? Jack-shit has been said. It’s a mess. How long is it expected? Once more EHG gives nothing of substance, it’s a mid-cycle reset + event because of the reset which then ends and we’re none the wiser if it’s worthwhile to continue for our goal or not.
Why?
Because we expected 3+ months for the cycle and it’s already not upheld. So… is it upheld then?
Will it be upheld in 1.2? 1.3? Who knows! Kinda takes the motivation away when you can’t plan if it’ll even be worthwhile to you.
Because lets face it, if someone plans around 3 months and plays on and off regularly but achieves their goal more or less then nice… but with 2 months that person wouldn’t even try.
And if such things like now happen then we gotta plan with 2 months.
Exactly! They never said anything about them even being a possibility.
Which causes this shit-show here.
This is going to be fun…
So, we’re getting checks notes, new and updated shrines, a new enemy type, dungeon QoL, Stash Tab QoL, bazaar QoL, a month long event modifier, as well as Controller Improvements and Steam Deck Verification, unstated QoL and Requested Features. Man, it may not be a new feature like Factions or Pinnacle bosses, but it seems like a lot is coming in this update. Almost like a mini-cycle? And if some of those new things don’t interest you? Doesn’t matter, it interests other people, so who are you to belittle them by claiming its not significant changes? Pot, meet kettle.
You had issues with the timing from the start. Based on assumptions you made due to EHG not clearly stating the cycle duration. As previously stated, 3-4 months may be an “industry standard” but it’s not a binding time frame that EHG must follow. They could have 18 month cycles or 1 month cycles if they wanted to. It’s not up to you and just because you assumed something, doesn’t make it a reality.
The differences you listed are miniscule nitpicks, and I never said “exactly the same” I asked for significant differences between 1.1 refresh and a new cycle. You gave me “there’s no new mechanics.”, you’re right. But we’re getting lots of new features and updates, including a new encounter mechanic and new shrines as well as updates to old ones. Sounds like mechanics to me? Even if they’re not significant changes, they’re still changes and once again I’m left with “There’s really not much difference here.” the mental aspects are entirely subjective so I won’t go into that.
See, you’re getting angry over assumptions again. You gotta stop that. I never said “you have no reason to be pissed off.” I said
As well as
Be upset, be frustrated, be irritated and annoyed. But to start a crusade over your own assumptions and make the claims that you have. Such as EHG screwing players over and lying to us. Is absolutely absurd. You have every right to be upset about “losing” your character earlier than you expected and the lack of clear communication. But to go to the lengths you and others have? Come on.
If so, then my bad. I’ve always took the meme to be “it’s a discount item” like “I want coco pebbles” and “we have coco pebbles at home” and it’s the Walmart brand “chocolate flakes”. It’s basically the same item, but not name brand and not as high quality. The same situation between a new cycle and a cycle refresh. The refresh isn’t as high quality and doesn’t have the “name brand” status of incrementing a number, but for all intents and purposes it’s close enough.
I’m belittling the childish tantrums, absolutely. If that’s disgusting to you then it is what it is. I won’t lose sleep over it (he says at 2am losing sleep due to insomnia and doom scrolling). My argument clearly upheld since your only evidence was to point out how, while there’s no significant changes, there’s clearly changes giving this the same purpose as new cycle. The event is one month, the event is solely “kill skeletons and we’ll report your status!” and “have some boosted gains.” everything else is unrelated to the event.
Is 2.5 not “around” 3 months? What’s “around” by your definition? 2.6? 2.85? 2.99? Would 3.5 months be “around” 3 months because it went longer? Even though it’s the same gap as 2.5? But I believe 2.5 is “around” 3 months, so if you tell me it’s not, then you’re belittling my opinion on what’s an acceptable time frame.
Again, the event is one month. The event is sick gains and kill Skelly-Bois.
I didn’t once mention legacy in the post you’re referring to, nor have I mentioned legacy outside of saying that I don’t have an issue playing legacy in the past 24 hours.
“the cycles last 3-4 months” oh? Where is it said? I can’t see anything about that.
If you can make assumptions, so can I. You made an assumption on the length of a cycle. I made an assumption on the expected time frame after the event ends. You said 3-4 months for a cycle. I said 2-3 months including the 1 month event. Given the wording:
I completely agree with you on this and all of us have agree with you on this. EHG needs to be clearer with their communication. All we can do is make assumptions and not get pissed off at EHG for when our own assumptions are wrong. Being irritated that it wasn’t clarified is perfectly reasonable.
Again, I agree, the problem is. You are allowed to assume something based on other companies doing something. So why can’t you assume that EHG will do something different? They already introduced multiple mechanics and concepts that other Diablo-clones don’t do. Why are cycle durations and no resets the one thing they’re not allowed to do differently? The absence of evidence (nothing to say they won’t do it.) is not the evidence of absence (proof they won’t do it.)
To anextent, yes, but given certain individuals think that Tencent CCP have got their diabolical claws into EHG, there are limits to what the devs can do to stop people doing advanced algebra on 1+1 & then leaping to a totally random tin-foil hat-based conclusion.
Yup.
Yes, but here’s the problem that you seem to be wilfully ignoring. The language Mike used was extremely fluffy & aspirational. He never said that it would “at no point ever” be less than 3 months, yet you & others are acting like he’s committee a cardinal sin & lied. If you go & read the words that he said you’ll see that most of them were qualifiers related to the duration & not just “might be longer for the first few”.
And yet you completely ignore the vagueness? Ok!
But what they said doesn’t just imply overtime. That’s what you refuse to see & I know you aren’t stupid & that your command of the English language is good enough to pick that up.
Yup.
Possibly, this is happening on both sides of the fence. But also “some folks” understand but just don’t agree & that’s likely happening on both sides as well. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re stupid (though they may be).
You say “reset them”, what do you mean by that? Just remove all their gold? What if they also have CoF characters & earned gold on them?
Like they’re throwing a massive paddy in public because one word is changing from something good & noble & “I’m better than you” to something diabolical & evil & dirty (in a bad way)? I guess yes, it does sound a bit childish. 
Because if they weren’t reset every season then Joe Bloggs who played the most brokenly meta build of the season that was promptly fixed because it exploited a bug, but not before he managed to hit 10 trillion waves. A feat that nobody else will ever be able to match, so the #1 spot is forever out of reach no matter how much of a skilled sweaty tryhard you are.
But if the ladders are reset each league, how are they distinguishable from the seasonal ladders? And sure seasonal resets are something that shpuld never happen in standard?
To be fair, it did have quite a few words & some of them had more than 1 syllable. Please try harder next time.
That’s because you apparently couldn’t understand the metaphor then decided to insult him because of it. That is projection. If you were curious.
@Scipo0419
Name 1 new half-way proper mechanic in the posted list.
Ah yes, Loot Lizards. Which are basically 1 model + a modifier to have more quantity likely.
That’s it?
Or are you talking about the ‘new shrines’ which to even count as a full-fledged mechanic would need to be 2-3 times as big as the existing mechanic since the base framework exists already.
Everything else is QoL purely.
As mentioned, this differentiates it from a Cycle. And ‘waiting for the next Cycle’ to implement them is general BS in my eyes. While true that major QoL changes are commonly also done at a start of a cycle nothing stops EHG from implementing them simply when they’re done, how it actually should be commonly.
To make it clear, not deploying them when done is a downside for the players, not a upside. Shouldn’t happen in the first place.
Nope.
Otherwise I guess games like ‘Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead’ get weekly expansions now!
Support features and QoL are that, non-mechanics. They’re called QoL for a reason, and support for extra platforms (like Steam Deck) is expanding their reach. Does nothing for someone without it now, does it?
Non-significant changes for a Cycle.
Yep, I do.
I never did mention how much of it needs to be ‘off’.
I deem 2 months 10 days ‘significant’ enough to say it’s too much, especially since expectations are 3+ months.
And yes, it’s not binding… but a.) they’re there for a reason, retention related ones and b.) they’re hinged on possible content release while ensuring quality can be up to par.
Hence they’re expected and substantially reducing them is commonly a bad sign for a game of this genre.
Yes, belittling, as I said 
Not even worthwhile to argue with you there hence.
And I’m getting angry because you’re belittling people, not because I’m going to assumptions.
Also… plainly spoken… you also have no right to decide how angry someone is allowed to be. For some it can be a severe thing since they’ve looked forward to doing something and it actively interferes with their enjoyment… or it can be a neglectable little thing. Not for you to decide.
You’re belittling the arguments. Don’t divert from that aspect.
Badly worded.
It’s commonly 3+ months. Few exceptions, and those are tightly established. Like GGG does with their 12,5 week leagues, half a week lost for moving stuff over properly and preparations.
Mike said it.
Hence not an assumption.
Just once more poor communication from EHG.
We have ‘0’ info about how long this reset lasts in total though, not even a guideline.
Actually we could even expect it to last 2 weeks beyond the event and then end with the current information we got.
Well, you either take a vague answer or you have no answer.
So you take the framework of the vague ones.
The alternative after all is worse, which is to be taken into consideration.
I never referred to anyone as “stupid”. In a healthy discussion agreement and disagreement are possible and normal. Healthy critiques and disagreeing are fine. In English speaking countries we have a phrase that is “let’s agree to disagree”. It is an attempt to keep the discourse healthy and from it devolving into petty name calling or worse still, becoming violent/threatening. I would like to introduce and improvement to that phrase, “let’s agree to agree”.
Let’s agree to agree, that:
The amount of features, mechanics, options and attention to detail in LE has raised player expectation. This is absolutely a wonderful thing. From the outside looking in, it looks like the devs actually listen to the players and take player contributions/concerns seriously. This is a major step in the right direction compared to many other well known dev shops which need not be named here.
I intentionally left that description broad and not clearly defined. This is to emphasize the broad style, sledge hammer to kill a fly, to please a subset of the player base approach, this sudden reset creates the effect of.
Situation: market/trade faction econ has been spoiled, with spill over effect on the leaderboards.
Solution: reset everyone including those that don’t or can’t participate in the Market/Trade faction or the leaderboards (hi, off-line member here…)
Redirecting the Assumptions Back to Sender: Selectively resetting market/trade faction folks who are effected by the spoiled econ (send ALL of their cycle 1.1 chars to Legacy), and then casually disregard their goals and time investment by saying that they can just continue in the Legacy zone. The casual disregard is to fling salt at the wound (intentional or maybe unintended). Let’s go a step further and toss lime juice at the wound. Let’s tell those who express displeasure to such changes described above to:
The above list is paraphrasing of course, but I’m sure folks understood the letter and spirit of the last 75 comments posted, otherwise the comment count would probably be much shorter.
My question below was rhetorical, which I went on to explain, to drive my point home about immaturity and casual disregard. It was to hold a mirror up to the immature and casual disregard of how some players responded to displeasure.
It is very selfish/childish. I explained further and drove my point home again. See “Redirecting the Assumptions Back to Sender” above. They/them/those fire off Katyusha and S.C.U.D missiles. Let me set off this EMP. Post EMP no more high tech weaponry, thus resetting (clever plug here) the conversation back to the pre-stone age simple era, of simple dialogue, with the ability to agree to agree.
I find it absurd that I already have to lose my character 1.1 hardcore. A short time has passed. this is not good.
But taking/acknowledging vagueness in one direction (potentially longer leagues) but ignoring vagueness in the other direction (potentially shorter leagues & I know that’s kinda not what’s happening here but it apoears to be one of the things being argued about) feels a trifle disingenuous. I guess that’s what I’m mainly trying to say. That & getting so upset or emotionally discombobulated feels a bit over done or disproportionate given the circumstances, though that could just be me.
You may not have, but there are certainly some who do appear to be & that’s who the comment was directed at.
I’m not going to quote your entire list, but yes, I would agree to agree.
Yeah, they do, but they also have their own view on how they want to make their game & their own lines that they usually (but not always) aren’t willing to cross or soften their approach on.
Let me clarify. I never stated, referred to, or insinuated that anyone was stupid. The application of that label is not coming from me nor should anyone attempt to color my statements with that application. I did however, hold a proverbial mirror up to immaturity and casual disregard.
Yes. We are in agreement. So let me throw a monkey with a spanner in hand, into the gear works. How about EHG speed up the roll out of this interrupt?
9/7/2024 12am EST (since EHG is Wilmington, Delaware, US):
Yeah. Let’s preempt the preemption or disrupt the interruption. Pick your metaphor, but let’s get on with it. We don’t need 15 days. Detonate the device and suck all of the oxygen out of the discussion. BOOM (clever plug here)… problem diverted and sent to the rear view. Everyone back to level 1 with no gold, and this time don’t be dupe it. (ah-ha… see what I did there)
I was literally going to write the same thing to the game developers, but I saw your post and I fully agree with it. I don’t have much time to play, and I set myself the goal of playing one character per season. I’ve already spent 150 hours, and there’s no way I can repeat that in the same season. I can only focus on improving my current character. But from what I’ve read, I’ll be able to continue on a standard account – but will I miss out on rewards then?
You single handedly refuted yourself and others saying the company is disrespectful to players with only two phrases.
Players are not obliged to agree with the company’s actions. The company is not obliged to fulfill each and every player expectations.
This I can agree with.
Case closed? Everyone happy and hyped for 1.1,5?
The only real problem I see with all this is EHG not making a Poll before deciding for a full reset. (Maybe they anticipated the community would vote massively against it? Who knows…)
This should be mandatory after they made a poll to check players positions on matters like mid-cycle balance changes… If this was worthy of receiving players feedback for, certainly a reset is way more so.
Nope, you will lose nothing if you choose to continue playing your character in Legacy (standard)… In Last Epoch there are currently no mechanical differences between cycle and Legacy.
But what law do they have the right to have arena ladders in a non-ladder game-mode?
Ladders are a concept of seasonal/cycle play.
What rewards? The cycle event will be both in legacy and the refreshed cycle. There aren’t other rewards associated with cycle play.
So because you’re not happy with the new incoming features, then they don’t count? Only ones that pass Kulze’s QA process for what’s a “new mechanic”? Does EHG email you their new seasonal mechanics to get your approval before launching? I’d hope so, otherwise 1.2 might not meet your standards for what constitutes a “new mechanic” for a new cycle.
So, their experience is irrelevant to you? But we need to be considerate of your experience. Got it.
So, again, would 3 months 20 days be ‘significant’ enough to say it’s “not around 3 months”? Or is it just because you lost 20 days instead of gaining 20 days? Also, I (among others) don’t see 20 days as significant enough to warrant an outrage. Are you belittling my experience? Also your expectations were 3+ months. I don’t have any expectations because EHG never gave me a hard date. @Llama8 covered this in great detail and even shared the exact wording from Mike, but we’re ignoring that because it’s a hard counter to your standpoint
I didn’t realize I was dealing with an industry expert who owns a company and runs their own seasonal game. It seems to me that EHG is doing extremely well given the smaller status of their company and them being compared to not only Blizzard but also GGG.
So you can belittle others by deeming anything that doesn’t fit your criteria as insignificant or not mattering? Me not agreeing with you and telling you that the issues you created in your own head aren’t as large as you think they are, is not me belittling you. It’s me pointing out that the shape of your nuggies is not world ending.
I’m going to quote the OL (Original Llama) here.
So, you’re able to make an assumption about vague wording to suit your narrative and refusing to acknowledge the evidence that, again, hard counters your entire reason to be on a crusade over this.
And it’s not for you to tell others that they should be pissed off at EHG over this, which both you and Oldschooldiablo have done. Pot… Meet kettle since you didn’t introduce yourself last time.
What arguments? The ones you’re trying to hold in a strainer?
Oh, so 3.5 months is acceptable, but 2.5 months isn’t. Also, it’s commonly not allowed for players to customize their skills with 20 skill points. It’s also not commonly allowed for players to spec into multiple subclasses. It’s also not commonly allowed to forge substats onto your gear. But we’re letting those slide because they make you happy. Uncommon things that make you sad are “against the industry standard” and “should not be allowed.” got it.
Hey, the vague answer is “theres going to be another reset with 1.2 or a cycle event before that and it won’t be within a week after the first event ending so it’ll be at least 1 month, giving us 2 months minimum” based on this exact post. So that’s your answer that you refused to accept and tried to nitpick. Why can you cherry pick vague answers and claim them to be true but I can’t? Is it because it invalidates your point?
Thank you for saying so eloquently what I’ve been bashing my head against a wall to try and say.
Oh wow back with the insults.
Is how you put it? Only I’m using it correctly
Dev quote: “During the Imperial Uprising event, players will participate by killing Skeletons—all manner of them. The Immortal Emperor’s head has gotten a little too big for his crown, and we must keep him in check. We will post the community’s progress on our socials so you can follow along with the culling of bones. There may even be a reward for such things.”
I see. Now, I could misinterpret the announcement, but as I read it, the event happens in cycle and legacy.
Edit: Another thought. The reward might be linked to liking / commenting on / following on their social media stuff.
The incorrect assumption you’re making here is that the reset is only because of the economy. Given that they didn’t reset the economy for the last dupe this holds very little water as it is. Let alone the fact that “the economy” is like 10% of the reasons stated for the reset by EHG themselves.
As I’m likely the person you’re using to make your point I’d like to emphasize the following:
So, instead of making assumptions about what the opposing side is trying to say, try to look at what’s actually being said.
I don’t follow your train of thought. I never stated or implied that EHG is disrespectful to players. I have a nagging feeling that you failed to see how those 2 lines are connected to my other previous statements. As stated previously, the devs don’t have a happy ending for everyone that everyone likes/wants. The 2nd line you quoted adds context, in that they are not required to make everyone happy. They also don’t have good options available to them to make everyone happy. What ever path they take it will inevitably anger some subset of the player base.
They/them/those who have casually disregarded player displeasure and commented immaturely is why I added clarification in that players are not required to like every feature/mechanic in the game. Being unhappy with/dissatisfied with some feature, mechanic, or dev choice is normal and not crying/complaining.
With the above understood I do not follow your logic in regard to me refuting myself or anyone else. If a player thinks that EHG is being disrespectful toward them and/or players in general, they are free to make that statement and substantiate it. I don’t make that claim.
Yeah I see your point. However, I don’t think the options available to the devs, to address the issues would lend well to polling. I could be wrong.
You get to keep your character in Legacy if you want to continue there as all the event stuff and new content will continue there.
Otherwise, yeah you have to restart with everyone. But! Now you have a fresh start with new content, new QoL and a new event to play with.