Acolyte - Minion Behaviour

Feedback and Suggestions
1

I’m actually not sure whether this is intended or a bug, but whatever A.I used by both Summon Skeleton and Summon Skeleton Mage is really funky at the moment from my experience.
This applies applies to Summon Bone Golem as well.

  • Minions have a hard time getting into combat with somewhat distant → distant enemies.
  • “A” or priority-altering skill nodes such as Rip Blood - Stench of Blood do often not keep minions engaged in combat after killing their target.
  • As a result of the above, minions are very frequently running back and forth between me and whatever enemies I want them to attack. Which is honestly really frustrating because it leads to a large amount of downtime on damage from said minions.
  • It sometimes takes a while for minions to react to Rip Blood - Stench of Blood and thus for example, half of my minions run off and attack while the other half stays behind to be lazy right next to me and just chill for a bit.
  • Sometimes 1-2 minions run very far away just to beat something up off-screen while the rest don’t bother.

What I’d love to see personally is a way to specify the behaviour of each individual minion type by right-clicking their portrait and selecting one of these potential options:

  • Defensive - Your minions become Defensive, attacking anything that hits them or you.
  • Supportive - Your minions become Supportive, attacking anything you hit.
  • Aggressive - Your minions become Aggressive, attacking any enemy they see.
  • Frenzied - Your minions become Frenzied, attacking everything they can.
    • Frenzied minions attack all enemies and destructibles and try to not attack the same thing unless there are fewer enemies than there are minions.
    • Frenzied minions do not obey your command to focus an enemy.

Or simply have them be aggressive by default without options, because as it is right now, it’s discouraging to play with Necromancer minions running back and forth… back and forth.
I’ve noticed that this is not an issue on the Primalist with his wolves, whom actively seek out enemies and I honestly just want my Necromancer minions to do the same.

6 Likes
2

I like your suggestion about having specified behaviour for each minion type but that is a bit too ambitious imo.

As it stands Last Epoch does not even have ‘‘standard’’ minion behaviour toggles.

PoE comes closest to what you suggest with Frenzy gem (makes minions super aggresive extending their normal leash range), Deathmark gem or the other one i forgot the name of (the one that makes minions stand closer to you and be more defensive). Also jewels for Golems to make them aggresive.

I love Minion/Summoner builds in every aRPG - Spectres, Skellies, Golems, Zombies in PoE, Necromancer with Skeleton Blood Mages, any pet build really in Grim Dawn.

However sadly in Last Epoch I avoid ANYTHING that is about Minions. That is obviously after trying many minion builds to work.

They just do not. Experience vs bosses is allright - yes there can be some problems with survivability and scaling but that was partly adressed this patch with Minion Power.

However lack of minion behaviour and derpy AI was not adressed.

Normal gameplay on any Minion build is just horrible when compared to minion builds in other games and the difference is pretty big. Monoliths or just even normal leveling - the speed and how fluid entire experience is - night and day compared to non summoner builds.

There really need to be pet stances from other games at least in basic form of aggresive/defensive. Entire AI / leash ranges must be improved.

Still even with those things implemented - LE summoner builds will feel worse than in D3, PoE, Grim Dawn. There is no spell/ability like Convocation that just brings minions to you and summons do not teleport to your position if you are screen away either.

Also for anybody that played summoners in other aRPGs - it becomes obvious very quickly that summons in LE just do not do enough damage per hit by themselves to allow for a quick and smooth ‘‘mapping’’ experience. Yes when they swarm enemies or have buffs etc they do quite a lot of damage. And yes when you overgear the content and have super optimized rolls etc - clear is decent but still miles behind non summoner builds.

So i stay way from any Beast Master build with pets, melee skeletons or any Druid minion build.

Golem is ok since it’s main job is to tank and it does it well.

Spriggan is also ok - it’s one minion that can pack a punch.

The only summoner build that somehow comes close to the feeling you get from other aRPGs when it comes to how smooth and effective it is to play - ice archers / mages skeletons.

Simply because you circumvent how slow , unresponsive and sometimes squishy minions can be and convert everything to ranged. To some degree that let’s you ‘‘focus fire’’ and command your minions more precisely.

Still it’s way slower and less fluid than let’s say any Mage build that will just teleport half a screen and 1 shot every pack - be it with Shatter Strike from Spellblade or ranged Elemental Nova as Sorcerer. Or any Blademaster build that can literally 1 shot packs while dashing through them and moving super fast to the next pack.

Any summoner build will be slower by nature and there is not even a point taking movement skill with you like most other builds. You simply will just arrive at the pack before your minions - and then you have to wait for them. Either running in circles like headless chickens or just taking damage.

But ye until there are at least basic pet stances and more snappy AI - playing summoner builds in LE is just subpar experience. Not only compared to the same archetype in other games - but also just any other ‘‘normal’’ build in LE.

Which makes me sad because Falconer probably will be about having a permanent pet from what we know. Or well at least I assume there will be some interaction with a pet. Also Runemaster could be ‘‘the golem’’ spec. And for Warlock I imagine there will be some use for minions as well thematically.

2 Likes
3

I realize some people that perhaps are not summoner fanatics or just haven’t seen summoner builds in action in other games might be tempted to say ‘‘but hey there is command minions button’’.

And yes while it alleviates some issues - that is just a temporary ‘‘band aid’’. It does give you a basic way of control but does not solve almost any issues that i brought up. Not to mention it’s simply not fun or engaging to just keep spamming this button entire map just so you can somehow play normally. No other build archetype has to deal with anything like this and it’s just tiresome (literally for the hand).

2 Likes
4

They are aware of the issues you mention.

1 Like
5

i disagree,

not in every point but…

spamming “a” might not be the cleanest implementation but it is some sort of a part of the class fantasy… YOU are the master of their minds and controlling them in every aspect.
with every other spec you spam another button to do dmg, for me its almost the same.

i dont want my minions to play the game for me. im playing a pure ranged minion build atm. and it seems im playing another game because i dont see all thiese “problems” you seem to have.

everything can be improved but i can enjoy minions like they are right now. (Acolyte only)

6

My only problem with Minions is that sometimes they get a little lost, they are stopped but with the animation as if they were walking.

The acolyte golem seems to be kind of stuck at times. his movements, the way he behaves, his animation sometimes seems like he moves as if he is “sliding”.

I know that maybe this is something that will be worked out in a polishing phase of the game. But their behavior is kind of weird.

7

As an example try and play a wolf centered build for a while. If this minion behaviour seems better it might be the way because right now the fiddle arround with pet AI and wolfs got a bit of a treatment. You recognice some differences pretty early on maybe.

8

hello all.
i would like to weigh in also.
i have a level 100 acolyte necromancer.
arena 201 all empowered bosses beaten.
that being said.
i LOVE my necromancer thats why i bought the game.
the minion command i dont like. have to use it or the rip blood stench option ill disucuss both.
the minion command button does send them where there supposed to go at the start.
sometime sit works all the way sometimes not.
seems the more monsters on the screen and or more minions espcially if you go summon wraiths it seems game has a hrader time and the minions just go wherever attack the monster or run back to you if the monster is to far away.
the rip blood stench is awesome for making mobs attack enemies the issue is in arena they all go where your rip blooding and thats doesnt always work out well when you got enemies coming from 4 diections at once.
also if you do bone curse rip blood and blood spatter you are throwing off so many rip bloods the minions keep attacking the last target rip blooded cause them to go back and forth on enemies.
i dont know the solution.
it seems they have a leash how far you can effectively command them away from you
which is really bad seems like they have maybe a 2 inch on screen away from you for them to attack enemies.
summon wraiths are the worst for this.
i tried the stay in place rune and they will attack stuff close to them but not farther than a cetain point also if you cast them say in the center of the screen to fight mobs you cant see ie ranged mobs especially siege golem which can aoe kill you from 2 screens away literally while your minions will never agrro him unless yer like really close to him then makes it tons harder to not die to a 200 plus siege golem much less 2 or 3 of them arena waves 200 plus.
sorry for the long post but i agree necro minions need some way to be useful in a ranged way say 25 feet further away from us then they are now and if we command them to attack somehting they need to go attack it and not run back to use cause enemy is to far away.
this is especially true of the summon wraith node summon at target location why even have that if they just run back to us then try to figure out if theres a enemy close enough to them to attack why dont they stay and go attack the enemy near next to them ie all minions seem to do this also if you summon them to far away they just run back to you.
thnak you for letting me rant i really hope they can find a balance some how.
cheers to all minion lovers whatever class you like.

2 Likes
9

sorry 1 more thing dont know if this right place to put this but when in monos or arena after a while if you have golems specced for 2 golems and 1 or both die and you resummon them only 1 will be summoned until you remove the skill from your skill bar then put it back on the skill bar and resummon them then you will start getting 2 again each summon. thanks alot all.

10

Something happened with minion AI between somewhere around approx August to November when I played again and its still persisting as im playing again now

Previously minions were really aggressive and would always stop running with you to attack monsters which actually caused its own issue ie tanky Spriggan pet for buffs with no damage attacking a monster 10 screens back in an endless loop. I used to have to call Spriggan to me with the pet command, Skeletons were ok because they killed things

Now everytime the player moves the minion follows to the players position, stops then decides to attack, if you run then stop into a pack of mobs the minion will kill one monster and then begin to follow to your position again to wait for you to stop to then attack something

2 Likes
11

Yes, the pets in this game are the dumbest I’ve seen in all the ARPG

1 Like
12

Devs should build the minion AI around the player. Dps minions should attack everything in a circle around them, ranged minions have bigger circle. After they finish killing thier target go to next closest by default if they dont commanded to other prio target /attack command should be work instantly/. This is basic, next is the players should not be off screening thier minions, minions doing thier job until the player step out from the circle wich is smaller than the monitor screen, only then minions fallow the player. In this game they doing everything they want, hitting something half map away, just running after me but the mob is just right there. My favorite is when im die all of them are still there and running to me across the map while running back :smiley: ofc pulling every leftover trash, just teleport them to me jesus…

3 Likes
13

To be honest, that’s something I would not want. I prefer having a wall of minions ahead. This would make them all able to hit the target, compared to a circle where only some of them would go for the target.

14

Scytha’s talking about having an aggro range for minions, not how they group up around you.

15

OK, my bad

16

So I started to play a pet necro for the first time and it’s a very poor experience. I can’t remember a worse pet AI but I realy reeeeealy rarely play petbuilds. Most of the time my pets can’t keep up, don’t move to where I want them with A click, and even the ranged pets follow my toon if I take 2 steps.
Well I hope it get’s better but I have no high hopes… likely to other pet (builds).

2 Likes
17

The wolves have a better AI and all minions may eventually get the same. ATM you’re right, minions other than wolves could be far better. But sincerely I’m currently leveling a Necro and when you understand how she works, you can be rather fine.

18

Sure but I don’t want to get used to it because it’s bad. To qoute one of my most liked comics:
“A Kenyan man once said to me, ‘You can get used to anything when money’s involved.’ He used to stick mice up his ass for twenty bucks at a time.". I’ll play the toon a bit more because I rarely play minion builds because 80% of the time my own minions make me go nuts but then again it’s the least played for me so it’s intersting from time to time… but I won’t “torture” myself :).

1 Like
19

I recently played boardman21’s crit melee minion build and then switched it over to his new ice minion build (ranged). The ranged AI is certainly better; less wasted time walking back and forth. But, it’s still a far cry from what you see in other games, such as with PoE’s skeleton mages who start their artillery fire the moment any enemies come into your (their) field of view.

I’m not sure what you mean by having the minions play the game for you. Minions are the primary damage source for a Necromancer. Imagine if a Mage’s fireball walked back and forth before heading to the target, unless you spammed the key a few more times to remind it where to go. It’s that same level of ridiculous for melee minions at the moment.

4 Likes
20

I’m currently leveling a necro with Ice Archers/Mages and a Bone Golem. So far I have to say that I agree with most of the opinions in this thread, the minion AI is pretty wonky at times.

Rip Blood with Stench of Blood helps a little but I’d rather not have to use this skill just to make the minions feel half decent.
I know that the Minion Attack Command exists but for me personally this doesn’t feel too good. Adding visual feedback to the command could make it feel a bit better, I think.

1 Like