About POE 2 and Last Epoch - The games offer different things and that's ok!

For once, I can clearly say that I will continue supporting Last Epoch just because I need variety and most importantly the game offers offline play. This is a major requirement for me and I only wish we had more games offering offline single player.

On the topic of POE 2, there’s no comparison because that game has a huge budget and it tries to create an online only microtransactions empire. To that effect, if Last epoch is trying to do the same, it is clear that it has lost for now - and it needs huge funding and more years in development to reach LE 2 - Also, as a consumer I can tell you that I’m not interested in contributing to online only Microtransaction Empires - and even for people that do, usually there’s no second place; You’re either first or last in terms of revenue, as Blizzard will soon discover.

I would like the developers to take another approach, and add more content, more storylines more stuff and I would be very willing to buy those as an expansion for both my online and offline characters.

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  • I totally agree. This game is different from how I experience story, skillsystem, style of graphic and more!

  • Budget usually big factor for how many and how often updates happen.
    But corporation using too big of a budget are required to get money from other means, not just sale of the game itself. Some games above 100million$ failed in last years by focusing on expensiv graphics, but then not getting back money. So I agree, microtansactions are bad and offline modus is great!

  • The chapter are not finished yet and endgame needs just a little finetuning in harbringer endstory. I would buy an expension if it changes how the game is played completely. For example Diablo 3 introduced replayability of chapter in endgame, another approach to get different gear and more. I cannot agree with this, because just a little contuniation like pokemon is doing is not enough to get my money.
    BUT the game is nearly finished in my eyes. After some more chapter and polishing of endgame, everything else could THEN be included in an expension and I am interested =)
    Maybe that expension will have a whole new map and some new area in current maps o.O Let us enjoy your creativ and passionate ideas =)

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Something like that would likely be released in 2030, considering EHG’s current pace.

POE2 is fun, I like it a lot so far. Playing a merc (shock, I know). About 10 hours in. WASD movement has been learnt the hard way, lol. But as soon as I pictured my guy as a little tank instead of a person it was easier to visualize/figure out.

Really like the fantasy aspect of ammo for the grenades and shotgun loads. Cool to see that stuff in a fantasy world. I feel like a little space marine or something, lol

Still plan on playing LE though. Not sure I could play POE2 full time. It’s kinda dark :sunny:

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Hearing that WASD has tank controls is actually hilarious. This is why I don’t want WASD in ARPG’s it’s not better. It’s worse

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It took about 15 hours but I am now pretty darn good at WASD with a third person game, lol. Why not just put in a first person view and save time? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m re-doing act 1 with a SSF character now. I am noticing the drops are much better than vanilla. Got my first orange item at lvl 8, lol. While my rng may have been lucky, the skill thing takes some practice. My first playthrough the bosses took me anywhere from 1 to 10 tries. This time I am doing it deathless and lower level. I just hope they separate SSF chat from general pop soon. I love CoF chat here, I think it would be similar over there too

WASD in third person isn’t the problem, it’s WASD without “over-the-shoulder” third person and in an isometric POV

WASD would normally be Forward, Strafe Left, walk backwards, strafe right. Which is 4 directional movement. 8 directions with WA, WD, SA, and, SD. But adding in camera control with right click allows you to fine tune your turning angles so you can move in 360 degrees. The only way to emulate that with a top-down POV is tank controls (which feel awful) or designing your entire game to be navigated in 8 directional movement, which isn’t great.

Twin-stick controller is the “best” option for controlling a top-down game, with mouse-click being a distant 2nd, tank control WASD in a very distant third, and 8-directional WASD in dead last. I suppose controlling it with a joystick could be above tank controls and a racing wheel/pedals being dead last?

Edit: I should note I’m speaking strictly about moving the character around the map and not about skill usage. Taking that into account brings mouse movement up to tie or be ahead of twin-stick depending on the game and skill count

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POE 2 is okay, but I really hate the passive skill tree … It seems like a step backwards for RPG progression systems - there’s no reason to make passives and attributes so convoluted and vast. I much prefer LE’s progression systems.

POE2 is terrible

  1. Pinning is a feature.
  2. Focus on movement mechanics in boss fights
  3. The loot drops are garbage
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The pinning isnt too bad once you aren’t surprised by it anymore. I think they are making evade pass throu them for the most part soon.

Boss fights have been “fight stuff in small circles” for the most part. Each boss has a couple tricks. Once you find them out its not hard to beat them later.

The loot I agree is pretty not great. Kinda boring so far. I keep getting drops for not my class. Legendries especially. Anyways, other than minor issues, I’m in act 3 and having a good time.

The only real issue I have with it is for specific cases where mobs spawn around you without you having a chance to position yourself. There’s some treasure room in one of the maps that awaken all the statues around it. You know it’s going to happen, but there is no way to avoid getting mobbed.
This is also the case for several Ultimatum rooms.

For regular play it’s fine. Don’t overextend yourself and deal with smaller packs.

Some are quite overtuned, like the Act 2 boss. The arena becomes so cluttered with stuff that it becomes hard to even walk, let alone try to also dodge his attacks.
I expect that this might get addressed at some point, but currently it’s too much. Especially for melee.

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I want Last Epoch and POE 2 to be competitors. It will be good for all of us :slight_smile:

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Then try an old Sacred 1 by a dwarf :)))

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Sacred 1 was awesome.

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I really wanted to like POE 2 unfortunately its all about dodge roll. I play ARPG to speed blast around and totally ignore everything else - kinda 2nd monitor afk game. Attention investment does not match the rewards in POE 2 so I will try it again in the future.
If I want to play carefully for every monster move I will play Monster hunter (and I do play it).

PoE2’s WASD is not like a tank movement, it ist just a 8 directional movement, but the animations are superb. moving and using skills in opposite directions and changing directions and using different skills while keep changing directions looks and feels amazing and super smooth and fluid.

I am not a big “fan”, but for certain classes and playstyles it simply makes sense. (Running back while shooting or running back and throwing skills that have a short delay before impact (grenades or otehr projectile skills that fall from the sky) feel a lot better when you can run into a direction while keeping your mouse where you want to aim.

At the end of the day its optional anyway and I think EHG already said they would lvoe to do it, but if they do it, they want to do it properly and not half-ass it.

Agreed, do what is right for Last Epoch - I like thematically what EHG is doing here in this game compared to others.

There are some good foundations that are made like skill tree per skill and the catch up mechanic if you are switching builds with the skills. Some dungeons need to be reworked but the ideas are great. Very much appreciate the fast skip of the alts through the dungeon route. Heck even the factions idea was great and it’ll get better.

Needs to be a bit more focused on end-game concepts and execution of already in game systems.

They’ve created a live-service game.
The primary setup for LE is also a live-service game, it only has the option for offline play. ‘True’ offline-play has only been implemented since 1.0 and their goal always was to upkeep the server costs via microtransactions.

So I guess you’re kinda out of luck there.

I wouldn’t since that’s not what was promised by EHG and hence I expect them to deliver regarding to their initial promises. Hence a game which has a one-time cost and gets steadily updated while holding itself afloat through microtransactions beyond the shelf-price.

Which is why I’m a bit baffled that they’re not putting more focus on the MTX department since that’s what will give them the safety buffer to afford upkeeping their model.

No, that’s a wrong statement.
Scale is the factor which decides that, especially the graphical fidelity is a big hindrance for the speed of updates since animations, models and textures need to be created accordingly.

Which is the downfall of modern gaming to a vast degree, graphical fidelity has been pushed and normalized to such a degree that people forget the mechanical aspects underneath as long as it’s ‘shiny’. And that often leads to a sub-par but amazing looking game as we have dozens flying around doing like crap.

Like any other medium gaming has a primary aspect which needs to be upheld to do well. Books need a good story. Movies are an in-between and need either a good story or an amazing presentation to work well. And games? Games need the mechanics to uphold the whole framework for it to work. Games are first and foremost about the mechanical aspects of interaction… just that many many alternative mediums like interactive novels (visual novels often fall into the category, some are actual proper story-puzzles though at least) are often named ‘games’ nowadays. They’re as far away from the medium as possible to barely allow the naming though.

Which I personally think is a major issue.
The game is ‘released’, hence I would expect the ‘basics’ to be finished. But the storyline isn’t.
That didn’t bode well with Wolcen and doesn’t bode well with Last Epoch either, especially since the majority of the campaign is still in a majorly unpolished state in dire need of a rework to their current standards.

PoE 2 has no tank-controls.
Thank controls are set relative to the characters position. in PoE 2 the character doesn’t change position though, it’s always in the middle of the screen. Hence it’s a direct control method and not tank controls.
You move donward when you press ‘S’ no matter if your character looks up, down, left or right.

Tank controls suck, I agree… but the way PoE 2 implemented WASD is actually superior for several classes. You can target related to your mouse-position and you can move with very high amounts of control. It’s better then controller in a lot of situations.

Good thing that both PoE 2 and LE are bird’s eye perspective then and not over-the-shoulder third person.

Why so?

Also utterly wrong. Controller can’t control the distance on abilities which enforce choosing a distance when using them.

Each control schema has a different upside and different downside.
Depending on implementation from the devs some skills work better or worse depending on what you choose, but with all 3 available options there is no superior option currently available on the market.

Which is needed inherently which such games, so they’re a mandatory aspect to take into consideration and can’t be detached solely from movement. Also even then controller isn’t the superior method actually, it entirely depends on the skill level of the player.

The majority of players will fare better with controller.
With sufficient skill though a mouse control is superior to a controller as you can decide the angle of movement with more precision.

That’s flavour, not ‘better’ or ‘worse’. The skill system in Last Epoch is more simplistic and straight-forward but allows inherently less variety. The one in PoE 2 is more convoluted and complex but also gives a higher amount of options hence.

Act 2, yes.
You can lazily walk out of the encirclement with 10% Movement speed boots easily. Likely even without Movement speed boots.

It’s an issue in Ultimatum though, or in Ritual, which both sometimes don’t allow a lot of space to maneuver and needs to be balanced accordingly still.

That’s why Path of Exile 1 and 2 are distinct. GGG specifically made the second one to move away from the modern PoE 1 experience of blindly blasting through maps and returning to a more managed and tactical gameplay.

Some love it, some hate it. It’s flavour.

It gets vastly better - depending on build - in the end-game, but that’s a lack of end-game balancing rather then the other bits. The campaign is the ‘optimal state’ of what they want to provide with their product. Ignoring the mess of the loot system.

Some? All of em :stuck_out_tongue: But yeah, the foundation is solid, now EHG just needs to build up on it.

Same with the end-game. That’s all fairly lackluster still, and the campaign quality needs a complete rework from Act 2-8.

Re-read my quote.

WASD in an isometric POV is the problem. WASD in third person over-the-shoulder is perfectly fine because your mouse controls the camera.

But if the viewpoint is over the shoulder, what’s there to control the camera with the mouse?