A follow-up on this. I was able to do 802 Corruption w/ boss & shade with a couple deaths. I couldn’t consistently survive at 900 so I stopped there.
800+ Corruption is possible using free gear on a ward-less melee.
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This where player skill comes in, it’s a lot easier to get to higher corruption with a more powerful/capable build & better gear, hence if the balance were better then more players would feel as though they had more choices as to what skills to use to reach an arbitraily high corruption.
That said, if one build/skill were clearly better than most others then they would feel compelled to use that even if many other builds were still capable.
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Every single number in a game is arbitrary. Why is level 100 the max? Why are resists capped at 75%? Why 4 max LP? Why does one weapon have 3 spell damage and another 5?
When you start making a game you start assigning numbers based on what you intend to do, and once that happens they stop being arbitrary in the confines of the game.
So yes, 300 is completely arbitrary, but it’s the number they assigned to the game for balance purposes. It might change in the future, but for now it’s the one they intend to use.
And yes, they did miss the mark by a lot. I think they got excited with the new stuff and let it get away from them. At this point, I think they should just focus on bringing all old classes up to these ones (because they are more fun, since they have a lot of nice interactions the old ones don’t), and then beef up the game/corruption again to match things up.
Though I don’t have much hopes of that happening soon.
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Imagine if they balanced the upcoming pinnacle bosses to the benchmark of 300c. That content would be steamrolled in less than a day.
I play to have fun & I’ve had 100x my moneys worth with that.
Peeps nowadays seem to get way caught up in the small shiz & either need to look at a bigger picture ( this is the FIRST cycle) or learn to slow down & enjoy the ride.
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@Allty I see it as lots of people caring loudly about the game. It’s exciting the devs even entertain us and listen!
EHG Devs:
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That will depend a lot on the balance changes they make for 1.1. Although I would expect the pinnacle boss to be a little higher than the lower limit, since it’s expected to be hard.
That being said, no matter how hard they make it, I expect a build will come up that will steamroll it anyway.
Balance is very very hard to do. No ARPG ever achieved true balance. GGG deals with this by just nerfing the most performing builds and (sometimes but not always) buffing the lowest ones.
This is easier to manage when classes are relatively balanced, which is not the case in LE. It also wasn’t the case on PoE and over time they smoothed the curve. I expect that will also happen in LE, but I don’t expect that curve to be smoothed out anytime soon.
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Yeah, GGG really does love nerfing things to the ground but I think they left the more popular skill TS from the most draconian nerfs. I’m wondering if the meta builds in LE will also just get nerfed in the way that I’ve read earlier builds and mechanics have been. (Poison comes to mind)
Well, considering that there are builds doing 10k corruption, yes, I would imagine they will be nerfed to the ground.
Hopefully, one or two classes will also be buffed at the same time so it doesn’t feel as bad.
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Because the game is primarily about making chars and having fun. And at that it delivers in spades.
If you are obsessed with pushing corruption to 2000, that a “you” thing. I suggest you play a build that can do that.
Or make Alts, and do both. That’s what I do.
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They already let the Jinn out of the bottle and if they try to put it back in people will go batshit crazy. I wait for the time when they say “Nah it’s not 300C that was a misunderstanding it’s 1k erm 2K… no wait 3K!”. If they balance the game to be at the benchmark that was given first aka 300C we would have 75 pages of nerfs in 76 pages long update note.
I’m 99.9% sure this won’t happen and EHG will most likely never stand by any balance goal they set in the past nor will they set a balance goal in the future because it’s easier to fuck up balancing and calling it “fun” then making meaningfull balancing where the most “op” build is only 100C higher then the “worst” build.
Right now I feel like LE is a better looking D3 with skilltrees and a more boring endgame. Yes I like like brainafk grifting for whatever unknown reason ^^ but no I don’t want it here… just before someone goes bananas about this ^^.
EHg wanted LE to be something different and yet they step into the same trap every Hack and Slash game is entangled in… at release even lol.
This highly depends on the balance goals of EHG. Maybe they buff everything to run 10k corruption and call their 300C endgame balancing a swing and a miss? Who knows? I’m 99.9% sure they won’t nerf anything down to the 300C mark they had in the past.
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I find it more likely that they will nerf the 3 classes, buff the others, then also buff corruption. They already buffed corruption for 1.0, so it wouldn’t be a stretch for them to do it again.
Yes, some people will complain, but they also do that in PoE. PoE has in the past killed builds totally (not just nerf) and people complained and then moved on. The game is still pretty much alive despite that.
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Well that’s just a false statement.
The video about why the d3 team couldn’t make last epoch the dev in that video explains what the main focus of arpgs are. The primary focus of an arpg to find better gear and become more efficient at the endgame content. So as you keep playing you will find better gear that in turn will make it faster or more efficient to clear content.
We know how EHG nerfed stuff in the past and what they do right now is a complete 180° on what they did. So I have no high hopes that we see meaningfull nerfs to make the game more balanced. I hope I’m wrong but then again I’m an optimist with experience.
we will see with the next cycle.
like i said, the silly idea of only balancing on a per cycle/season is just that, silly.
i completely acknowledge that people dont want their builds to need changing during a cycle/season, but people end up waiting months for a real change.
they are scared to even fix bugs because doing that is a nerf.
making a skill target better is a buff.
so basically, they can only reduce quest rewards as the biggest change.
Blockquote
*Reduced gold turn-in reward for Desert Treasure from 20k to 2k
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Yeah my 100% focus on 1.1 is balance changes. Personally never liked bosses in arpgs. I just want to slay monsters as fast as possible. The pinnacle boss system does nothing for me.
My concern is the approach Mike says on his live streams about reworks. He gets asked this all time about the classes we all know needs them. His response is always “I don’t like the term reworks. It implies the spec doesn’t work and needs to be fixed. Some of these specs just need tuning changes and they will be fine.” While I slightly agree that no spec “doesn’t work,” but some of these specs needs more than just tuning changes.
I think most people see falconer, lock, rune master, and are like how come these specs have the 5 point bonus and the old specs don’t? How come these specs have much more interaction in between their skills and passives?
That’s what the community wants as reworks. Every spec should have the same similar design space. Tuning is fine, but I want my void knight to have much more interaction between my skills. I want to get 5 point bonuses.
So with mikes live streams I fear this studio will take way too long to fix classes. And if we are going to go multiple cycles before any meaningful class changes come then I really won’t be playing this game too much in the future.
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Balancing once is okay if it is done right and with a clear goal in mind. The problem for me is that the devs seem rather aimless what their goals are when it comes to balancing.
Pinnacle content is crap anyway. Have a big bad every now and then isn’t a problem but grinding for a boss you kill once or twice for an achivement is just bad. Adding content average Joe most likely wont touch is useless from my point of view anyway because id adds nothing for most players.
Not realy. The skills work they simply do no dmg so they simply increase the numbers. Nothing is broken and not working. A rework of a class to me would be the level of changes they made for the druid back in the day. That’s why I wouldn’t use that term as well because first of all number tweaks make the classes that are UP do bigger bonks. Bigger bonks are more fun and that’s that.
That’s the worst possible example you can pick because VK is one of the classes with the biggest potential of interactive skills there is.
Well tbf Mike can’t tell everything they work on because if things don’t happen in time or are changed while developed people go craycray. Vague answers are the best you can expect from this kind of stuff untill things are set in stone and you get some spoilers.
I think right now most of the devs work on the pinacle boss stuff and the season theme and balancing will stay the clownfiesta it is. there are simply to many fanboys arround who would eat up everything EHG servs them even when it was a poop sandwich. If EHG was Blizzard people would’ve ripped them a new one already but it’s only fair to sugarcoar EHG for whatever reason when they took our money as every other dev studio ^^.
this comes from the initial design revolving around everyone else, which is not what it was.
their goal was just to have fun together.
Blockquote
EHG started from a group of gamers hoping to make the ARPG they wanted to play, and now EHG is a group of gamers hoping to make the game YOU want to play.
Blockquote
thats because the whole design started from a group of people having fun playing together.
it wasnt about balance or anything, it was just something fun for a group of people to do.
they are experimenting with their dev skills.
make a random item do random things just for the fun of making it do that.
then see if someone comes up with a build around it or change it when people complain.
Then explain why 3-4 specs have 5 point bonus passives and the older specs don’t. (And you can’t use the excuse well they were designed earlier then the new ones and they will get updated eventually.) because if that’s the only excuse then it shows EHG’s is incompetent and either released an unfinished product or should have waited to fully release this game when all classes have the same level of design space.
And vk is not a bad example. Yes forge guard is worse, but it still isn’t good either. Volatile reversal, anomaly, devouring orb, erasing strike doesn’t have any skill interactions to the level of falconer, lock, rune master, marksman. Paladin’s healing hands has crazy interaction between many skills. Sentinel and primalist needs a rework. Sorc needs a rework. Almost all of vk’s big time builds are just base sentinel skills. Warpath, rive, smite, hammer throw. And for them you just take volatile and anomaly as buffs. Orb is really the only vk ability that is showcased.
Crazy how top falconer builds use falconery, explosive trap, and dive bomb as their big time abilities,. Or warlock use chthonic fissure, chaos bolts, ghost flame, profane veil. Necro uses wraith, skeletal mage, dread shade.
My point is isn’t odd that the recent classes utilize their OWN sub class skills dedicated to their skills vs the old specs that mostly use their base class skills. Like almost all top beast master builds don’t even use any of their skills besides frenzy totem. They just use summon wolf from the base.
So before you just assume tuning is the answer, actually think and take a deep dive into class design and see the problems that exists in class design in this game.
adding 5 point bonuses mid-cycle is a buff… lol
need to wait for next cycle to see if they make this broader.