[@11HG] If botting is a declared goal for MP then

… keep the build enabling “good” items with more than just 2LP further on gated behind laughably adjusted droprates.

The people who say, they love PoE but they won’t or can’t play it anymore because its a second full time job doesn’t refer to the fact that you have to learn everything first about its utterly bloated complexity -NO!- it’s rather because it eats up way too much time.

Thanks & m2c

To some extent, arpgs are played BECAUSE they take too much time. I want there to always be the chase for “the perfect item” for my character. Once I have achieved perfect BiS gear it is very difficult to find a reason to continue playing the game. I won. Your post also is ignoring that many of the items that have very low 3-4 lp droprates are already BiS by an enormous margin at 2lp. The 3-4 lp versions exist mainly as a dream, what/if drop.


You doesn’t seem to understand the concept behind farm bots at all (no offense), they exist in the first place because people have no time or desire to grind 24/7.

Their success and distribution indicates rather that you’re totally wrong with your argument that “arpgs are played BECAUSE they take too much time”.

Either way, last epoch is sadly still far far away from the happy medium if it comes to balancing.

Actually, bots and RMT exist because a very very small portion of the community would rather P2W and take shortcuts.
For the vast majority of the playerbase, though, ARPGs really are played because they take so much time. It’s a chase of a goal that isn’t instant.


Make the best items in the game easier to get, or you support botting.

That’s certainly one of the takes of all time.


Well, it’s technically true. If all the gear is really easy to get, the bots will leave. Because the players will also leave, but that is just a small side effect.


If this is a self exploration < 10k player game they are aiming for then that would make more sense but with the > 50k playerbase, chase items, grinding, workable economy is necessary. You’re better off waiting for a private server with increase drop rates, single player offline mode with plugins and mods, etc.

PoE is not taking all the players because it is overly complicated for the average gamer, not because it is too time consuming. That is what is driving players away. Without a high playerbase, the grind and chase won’t give you as much of a rewarding and exciting feel. Why do you think D2 is the masterpiece of all time? It hit many elements right, surely not the best as with time, everythign evolves but close to everything was right and tolerable, making it addicting for everyone.

To connect farm bots to a working and good feature/mechanic is crazy, its like saying, you made a game, its promoting people to hack it. People go RMAH because they choose to and that makes them happy. There will be people that do it for the time consuming for sure but to say it like that’s the main and sole reason, is crazy. It’s not that hard to comprehend that many people just like the easy way out and are power hungry but who are we to judge?
The issue is the bots and cheats, not the people that buy it as it doesn’t affect my own progress.

You’re not in a much different position wanting for increase drop rates with your reasoning imo. They have factions in place to speedily help with your progression and you are more than capable, at its current state, complete and experience all end game content. Reaching 2000 corruption isn’t going to give you much of a different from 300 corruption besides the difficulty and that is limitless so you will never be satisfied with that mindset unless you literally get everything in your eyes perfect stats, BiS.

No one asks for getting stuff really easy, where did you get that from?

My point is/was kind of: it’s even easier to get or to craft a 6L in PoE than to get a 4L in LE. And that’s totally absurd.

How is that remotely “good”? How does this value time of normal people? Is LE trying to be a job or a Game?

6Link in PoE and 4Legendary Potential in LE is not even remotely compareble.

Especially because Legendary Potential is a variable depending on the unique.

4LP on certain items is beyond reasonable and is not even meant to be reasonable. Just because it exists doesn’t mean that it’s realistically obtainable let alone for “normal people”.

6 Link in Path of Exile is something you are expected to naturally get at some point (if you play long enough).


A 4LP is the equivalent of a perfect double corrupt, enchanted, 28% qual (maybe it can be higher these days with power creep), 6 link unique. It’s something that is very rare and very very expensive. It’s also something you don’t really need to play endgame, on either game.

Just like all ARPGs, if you want the BiS gear and min-max your gear, it’s like a job. You need to grind hours and hours and hours. If all you want is to have fun, then you play at your own pace and you don’t care if you never get that ultra rare drop that you definitely don’t need to do endgame and have fun.


An LP4 feels more in the lines of a mirror drop when I compare LE/POE.


PoE is more casual than ever now

level 100 = joke

non uber bosses = joke

40/40 = joke

For most of the very strong and popular ones yeah, for sure.

But again what makes LP very special is, that it is variably depending on the uniques.

There are uniques that you can very reliably farm with 3 LP to the point where even bad rng will not stop you from getting one within a reasonable amount of time. That reasonable amount of time is obviously subjective.

1 Like

And here, I thought RMT was a huge issue.

Then why do login statistics for most aRPGS show steep drops after the first few weeks, or month, of a new league/cycle?

I would say the majority of aRPG players don’t want to be tied down to a single game, anymore. With so many quality offerings on the market, it appears players want to jump in, consume the new content, then move on and do the same in the next game’s new league/cycle.

All this harbinger nonsense about RMT or “loot on a silver platter” killing the game is crazy. POE has had RMT for years now – along with a shitty trade system – and it’s easily the king of the aRPG crop. D3 still attracts players with each new season, and D4 will continue to do so as well, regardless of all the shade people want to throw at it. TL:I, same thing… and even Undecember. Hell, true-P2W games, like Lost Ark still have a healthy player base.

I think this whole thing is more of a few forum warriors, who just really really hate something, trying to make it out to be something it really isn’t. Because, in my 40+ years of gaming, I’ve played in games with RMT, and those without RMT, and I honestly couldn’t feel any difference in the game. I’ve competed with mining-bots in WoW, and just treated them like any other player who would happen to be farming the same nodes as me. I block RMT spammers in chat, and I delete/block them when I get in-game email from them. They are a slight inconvenience, bordering on nuisance, but hardly the game-killing cancer being portrayed here. The only thing that can kill a game is poor developers – even a toxic community won’t truly kill a game. If it’s fun, and engaging, people will play it.

1 Like

Just because a small portion of a community does something doesn’t mean it’s not an issue. I know you’re going to say that it’s hyperbole again, but only a small portion of the population are serial killers, but it’s still a big issue.

Because that is usually the time when most players reach their goal. For some it’s getting to lvl 100/getting BiS gear, which the hardcore grinders can achieve in about a month, for others it’s just reaching endgame and trying out the season mechanics.
Different players have different goals, but most players have a tolerance of about a month for the same content. Exactly because there are many more games available to try out.

I don’t think the vast majority of players think that. I don’t think the vast majority of players even notice that, outside of the annoying spam in chat. RMT harms people, it’s just not usually the players, so they don’t care.
Just like people buy their phones, clothes, whatever, made with child labour and they don’t care, because it’s cheaper and convenient.

I agree with this. RMT might drive a few players away but they’ll be a minority. P2W will drive more people away, but they would be replaced with others that don’t care about it or actively embrace it.
There would still be plenty of people to play the game if LE went P2W, as can be seen by DI or Undecember, it just wouldn’t be the playerbase EHG wants.


There are just too much expectations for the people posting that want more. Endgame baseline is ideally around 300 corruption, way under what many are having trouble with.

I think when it comes to time and the game, it is more on than generous. You can well achieve baseline end game in around 60-80 hours I think.

To me, that sounds like people are asking to get stuff easier… You don’t need anything more than 0-1 LP to push near 1k corrupt, far from the endgame baseline in mind by EHG themselves.

This is the thing that nobody complaining about LP/Legendary difficulty wants to get, and it seems to be on purpose. Maybe having things that are permanently out of their reach hits too close to their real life or something. But that’s the reality, and it doesn’t need to change. Having mostly unattainable items is neat.


I agree with your post, but I think my quoted part is a bit unfortunately expressed.

The main purpose of these items is not to specifically have “unattainable items”, it is jsut a side effect of having “open-ended/the sky is the limit” itemization.

Why should they artifically cut that off? Item A only gets 2LP maximum, because everything beyond that is too strong and unreasonable. Item B can get 4LP, because its a mid-tier item anyway. That makes no sense and yet people are here complaining that Item A with 3LP is not in their reach.

Actually Im deaf and 100% disabled and botted the hell out of D3 even though I had nothing but time. So to say people bot because they dont have time is a false equivalency at best. If I found full gear in one evening like D3 I wouldnt play this game or any other. Need that carrot and stick, not all gear in a week. I botted D3 because the gear game to fast and easy

vast majority of gold farming is not done by people but by criminal organizations which are in third world countries such as Venezuela, mostly funded by stolen funds or money that the cartel uses to money launder. The goal is not to avoid getting caught as they dont waste their own money. They waste money of legit victims.

Why gold sellers are historically known for delivering on the gold as if they did not, their crimes would not work- are cases where people are scammed thou.

Your not fighting a pape, your fighting a multi billion dollar organization that uses slavery to force people to farm gold, which they then sell.

Why fighting rmt is so hard