People are like “I was a big fan of the game, but there’s just not enough content for me to speedrun through, so I am going to play XYZ instead! But don’t forget I am a big fan!”
Like, no man, you are not a big fan. Me, I am a big fan, and I am content with wherever the game is at the moment, and am willing to be patient for it to be improved.
I also prefer to show how big of a fan I am by purchasing cosmetics and send my good feedback wherever I can.
I wouldn’t be a big fan if all I was doing was to criticize the game, call it dead, and disguise all of that negativity under “constructive criticism”
I would agree with you if LE DID NOT choose a live service model. They have to know the expectation for a season is 3 months, because that is the norm & more importantly the schedule the arpg competitors stick to (give & take a few weeks).
If LE cannot deliver with satisfactory within the timeline, then they shouldn’t have made the game a live service model, & stick to traditional base games +DLCs ala Grim dawn.
You can still have seasonal reset, like D2, with expectation of no major updates.
I had the game since I think 2019. Its very clear (I did not blame them, as they are small studio) they do not have the capacity to delivered enough update in 3 month cycles, especially it competitors have up their game.
Being a big Fan, & not happy with current content are not mutually exclusive.
The thing I heard from you, is you think" big Fan" means liking very much the game as it is. If you are not satisfied with the game, you are by (your) definition not a big fan
(correct me if I am wrong)
If you are a sport fan that support a team, you will know “Fans” do not mean you enjoy what your supported team is doing, & being not critical.
Fans could means you like the studio, you want the game to succeed, you see potiential…etc
What I mean is that it seems like these people have more negativity than positivity.
I think that if your negativity is 51% or more, compared to your positivity towards the game, then you are not a big fan
So by your understanding, a fan is someone who is allowed to be more negative than they are positive towards a subject? And by your definition, that still counts as a “fan”?
I’m sorry, but in my book, that is called “hater”
Devs slept through the hype for Last epoch. Perhaps they released the game too early due to the release window being used. Only very big and positive changes can save it. They don’t need to look at PoE or Diablo. If you don’t fight for your place on the market, you die. They played Russian roulette with these slow changes. The future will show whether they will defend themselves or end up as a game with low population like Wolcen or Martyr.
Wolcen was sad. I supported it (like LE) since pretty much very early.
They died off painfully. I think the issue is the Live service goldmine/pitfall. Every arpg dev wanted to be live service, the next PoE, the new diablo.
People forgot PoE had the luxury of having little competition for most of its lifetime, being the only live service arpg game. The league updates were fairly lackluster/mid for more than half of its lifetime. But like I said, no Competition, with its only compeition Diablo 3 struggling, & blizzard not investing anymore on it (having no recurring revenue).
The POE 10 acts that we have now, only comes after like 5 years (I think). Took them 5 yers to finally have a full campaign. (it was painful to level 3 difficulties before, at least for me)
… POE has advantages of time as well as lack of compeition. This allow the content /reveue to grow, & be bought 100% (base on wiki) now by 10cents.
I played PoE in beta. It was rough. If POE launched today the content (3 acts and barely endgame) of 1.0, it will died soon.
People can call it unfair, but modern gamers expect LE, or any arpg to be at least within stone throw distance of existing arpgs, while compariable updates, or even faster to breach the gap.
I think Cycle 3 will be a big test for LE. It need to be a massive improvement after people waited for 5-6 months for it.
Nope. That’s not what he said…
All he’s saying is that if someone only show their negative feedback, then they’re probably not a big fan… They might even enjoy the game, but definitely not a big fan.
Being a fan implies you want that game to succeed above any criticism you might have. It means you care for the game and it’s development, and to show this, you probably are willing to give good feedback, even if you’re not completely content, because you believe the game can overcome those problems and will thrive. And since you like the game so much, you probably also have lots of criticism towards it, nothing’s perfect, but you would not ever go as far as to say the game will die. Quite the contrary, again, you want it to succeed.
And that’s quite the opposite of what @Sartheris is pointing in some people’s behavior.
Take @Kulze for example… He’s always here voicing his dislikes towards the current state of the game, but he’s also a very avid feedback/suggestions provider. You can tell by his words that he cares for the game and is not just gruntling out of madness. He wants the game to succeed, to not die, because he likes it.
So I’m sure Kulze is a big fan and that Sartheris is not talking about him.
PS: sorry to tag you bro
Not necessarily. I’m a big fan of LE and I don’t have that much criticism towards it. There are a few things which I don’t like as much, but those are small issues. I’ve often said that EHG could stop working on LE and I’d still play it for years to come.
All the criticisms I currently have of LE are small issues. The game hits all the correct boxes for me everywhere else.
I currently feel the same. I only said what you quoted to show it is allowed for big fans to have lots of criticism too.
But those certainly show their criticism in a constructive way.
@DJSamhein, I’m in the same boat as you and F0lk in that I have more nitpicks than complaints with LE and would consider the three of us big fans. I’d also consider Kulze, as F0lk put it a “disgruntled big fan” with Oldschooldiablo in that same camp.
We’re all big fans, even if some of us have more complaints than others. BUT, like @Sartheris said, anyone who has more hate than love for a game is not a big fan. I don’t think Kulze or Oldschooldiablo hate the game, but I do think a lot of people, like op, may like one or two aspects but hate the majority and expect it to fail if the devs don’t fix the things they hate. Which isn’t feedback, it’s demands. Kulze, for example, has never demanded anything, just explained why he/she believes things could be better and how to make them better in his/her opinion.
I don’t mean for this to seem preachy to you DJ since I’m pretty sure you know this, I just wanted to add to the conversation lol
I’ve always found this mindset to be strange. There are plenty of games I don’t like, or that I only like parts of, like D4, but I’d never wish for it to fail.
I tried D4, it didn’t really fill all the boxes for me, even though I like some parts of it (like the campaign and the combat), so I just stopped playing. I never once even bothered going to their forums and try to change the game. It just seems like a waste of time for me.
And I definitely won’t be rooting for it or any other game to fail just because I don’t like it. There are plenty of very successful games I don’t like (all of FromSoftware games, for example) but I simply don’t play them. I’m actually happy for them that Elden Ring was such a success. Games succeeding is always good for the overall industry, even when it’s a game you don’t like.
So yeah, tldr; I’m always amazed at people that have a mindset of “I hope this game I don’t like fails splendidly”. Seems like there’s something wrong with them to be so full of negativity as to reach that point.
I think this comment is dishonest. I think we all know the reason you, and no sane person, goes to the Blizzard forums. It’s like saying, I don’t go to 4chan because I didn’t care for the [random kink].
Spot on.
What I am seeing here and on Reddit, are people that are bashing others that try to congratulate EHG for the game, saying things like “You are not doing them any favors by only praising them”, and using “constructive criticism” to disguise their hate.
Yes, I am not pointing fingers, just general observations.
Exactly, if you decided to nitpick and dig deep, you’d eventually find lots of shit.
Hell, if I were to start, I can find flaws even on the very first screen in-game.
I don’t understand people like these. “Waaah, fix the game NOW, do it as I want it to be, so I can speed-run through everything and then not have to play the game anymore!”
I actually never went to 4chan. Just like I don’t usually go to reddit (other than results for google searches for something or other) or discord (other than specific servers for a few things and I usually always mute those and only check them for specific things).
I’m fairly anti-social online.
Even when I was very active in PoE and was in a clan and no-lifed the game for a couple years, I don’t think I ever posted on their forums.
To me the bottom line is that there are way too many things I like that I don’t have enough time for. I’m not talking only about games, but even if I were just talking about games, there are so many good games I simply don’t have time to play, so wasting time on things I don’t like is… well, a waste of time.
Unlike PoE which had no records to look back to for the ‘how to handle things’ other companies now do.
GGG were the forerunner, they set the Standard hence. Other companies only need to study their ups and downs and go with those to provide at least a functioning and long-term decent product on the market.
That’s sadly often not done, major points missing.
LE is at least in the ‘it functions’ area, but they’re prone to falling off into nothingness if they don’t step up their game.
It was fine during pre-release, it’s not after release, the expectations are different and vastly harder to fulfill.
To be fair… I also think inherently the game will fail (because of being a live-service model) if EHG doesn’t manage to bring consistency onto the table… and that better earlier then later.
Nonetheless I want them to succeed because the game is good enough as a basis for me to say ‘Yeah, this should be a thing that’s kept up and improved, it has tons of potential which can be fulfilled without ridiculous time investment or reworks’.
Some games aren’t that good… which means I don’t care about them.
Some games aren’t my genre… which means I also don’t care about them.
And some are scammy low-quality crap, so I’ll talk crap about them
Well… I don’t bash others for doing it… but I’m also of the mind that pure praise as feedback is not helpful.
Have they reached utter perfection already so nothing can be improved? Well… then why is nothing mentioned which can be theoretically made better?
Many people seem to be fairly misled on what feedback is supposed to be. It’s not praise, it’s about providing things which are well done and those which aren’t well done, optimally with reasonings.
‘I enjoyed it greatly!’ does tell us after all… nothing… at least nothing useful. It’s subjective, has no basis and we don’t even know if we did something right or not since we don’t know what the base-premise for deciding that is for that person.
We need a lot of people to have it become a general sentiment and then derive information from that.
As an example: ‘I enjoyed the meal greatly! I’ve never had something that great!’… if that person had been starving for example nearly every slop tastes like a Michelin-star menu. So no information can reliably derived from it.
And it should all be pointed out.
Some points are minimal issues.
Some are major ones which need adjustments at best ASAP if possible.
You can be a fan of something and still be completely negative. There is something known as agreeing with a vision or a concept but hating how it is implemented.
Eg: i like the idea of capitalism, but i hate the current way its set up and would not bat one eye if 95% of the world caught on fire and burned to ash. Does not mean i am not a fan of fair, merit based, work rewarding, hierarchical methods to building society.
Same example applies to last epoch. I like its premise, i like how things are set up, i can see the potential. But amid that are hundreds of stupid decisions that should have no business being here (most of them are small. But they add up to the point we lose 95% of players by cycle 1.2).
Still a fan of the game. Remove those stupid decisions and we got a good game. None of us would be here on the forums if we where not fans
Yep, I’d consider you a fan because you don’t want EHG to fail. Just like you don’t want Capitalism to fail, even if you’re not happy with the current state of the game you’re not sitting here saying “they’re going to fail if they don’t do what I want!”
Edit:
Using myself with games as an example. I’m a massive Legend of Zelda fan. I’ve played Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time, and Majora’s Mask more times than I can count. I played the Switch Release of Skyward Sword twice, and the Gameboy games dozens of times each. I absolutely hate Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. They do nothing that I loved from the previous games and I hate the weapon durability system. Yet I love that the games did so well. It’s great for the teams, I’m nervous we’ll never go back to the more linear stories with real dungeons and dungeon items, but I’m not going to hate on Nintendo for what they did that I don’t like. Clearly they were successful.
I’m also a massive Monster Hunter fan and World and Rise both added changes from 4th Gen that I can’t stand. Scout flies are “fine” at first and then work as a GPS tracking system to the monster as soon as you load into the map. Rise uses the cohoot as a freaking UAV to track the monster positions in real time. It’s absurd, plus there’s no reason to prepare for a hunt because you can just go back to camp and get all your supplies you forgot or ran out of, back in 4th Gen and prior if I ran out of healing supplies I needed to disengage and gather materials around the map for potions. I still love both games and I’m glad that World did as well as it did to bring more love into the MonHun franchise (4U is still the best game with GU in a close second, I’ll literally fight you on this) and I’m excited for Wilds even if I’m already seeing things I don’t like (bringing two weapons, for example).
