I believe the legacy bazaar is full of items priced at, and left over from, both the server launch and the gold duping issue, inflating prices.
I don’t know if there’s an automatic return to read only tabs of items that have been in the bazaar for hundreds of days, but it would be good to have a reset for those, like me, that play there.
This would encourage legacy players to monitor and adjust prices on their items to keep them fresh. One player has about 30k items in there, they told me, and obviously will never have the time or inclination to do anything with them. I wonder if, in fact, they use it as a form of storage.
I’m sure it makes very little difference in terms of the price you choose to pay or not, but it would be a far easier database to search and a much faster experience all round.
Wiping Legacy for any reason at all is not a viable option.
The existence of Legacy is there to provide a safe environment where everything you acquire in Cycles (or while playing Legacy itself) accumulates without ever expiring. Taking that away removes all reasoning for it to exist.
Unlikely, but you can do it, not a bad idea for specific items. Overprice them massively and keep them inside the Bazaar… doable. The lack of a search function though makes that a hassle.
I’ve said a limit on listings should be a mandatory necessity, sadly EHG seems to be of a different mind there. The issue with it is that since it’s effortless and automatic you can throw any item for any stage of the game in and simply let it sit there, endlessly. There is no reason to think about positioning yourself in the market like PoE has (because of limited Stash space + time-investment needed to do the trades) and hence supply is prone to become extreme while demand is prone to become nigh non-existent for anything below top-tier items.
Makes ‘working yourself up’ kinda hard and is a hindrance long-term for new players trying to engage with the system. If there’s no space to swamp the market with cheap worthless but usable items for 1k gold then those players can actually put their own items up and have a reliable chance to sell something from time to time with a higher price as well, currently that’s not the case though.
Braindead wipe? Oh no! At least not w/o instruments to prepare active big ol sellers for trash wiping. Atm I have several hundreds (or maybe thousands) of non relevant lots and clicking each one by one to unlist it is freaking hell! No wonder that some one got to the point of 30k items as MG lacks store management. No filters, just rude low to high price and new to old sorts.
We need improvements
The UI is a menace still, it ‘baseline functions’ but is in no way enjoyable to use for anyone going more into it then baseline dabbling… or anyone using it long-term for that matter either.
Personal groupings for listing would be a good start.
Search functionality for personal listings as well.
A proper functionality to search for sold items in a reliable way would be nice as well but not really important.
Generally everything with the thought process of ‘If I were someone trying to become a efficient trader… what would I like to have as a function in this system?’
It’s clearly not made with that in mind but rather simply providing ‘a place of some kind’ where trade is possible, without convenience though.
One major aspect that’s missing and is good for both players and developers is a pricing history. For example the option to pick out a base and an affix (of a specific tier) and then seeing a graph on how many and for what price they were sold.
This not only gives the players a proper option for item pricing overall but also is a fantastic feedback mechanism for EHG to get a meaningful idea of when and how the market starts to fail in different areas, allowing methods to alleviate this over the course of time.
For now it’s very rudimentary still, with some issues at the lowermost level causing long-term problems that can hardly be solved without any substantial changes… but those functionalities would at least make the situation more comfortable for the user, and especially non-gameplay based mechanics shouldn’t ever be a hassle. GGG showcased that already with their ill-minded direction of making trade intentionally frustrating which has caused players to stop playing in large portions… and with the Settlers league being one of the best received leagues of any time for a reason despite not offering any distinct map-to-map gameplay changes.
Great feedback on this.
I completely agree on a quantity limit for listings, with a steep gold curve on, or MTX for, increasing your listing quantity.
This suggestion is a huge headache for actrive legacy players, but I do wonder how many accounts with items in the bazaar on legacy are even still active. How many would be inconvenienced if their items got returned to read only tabs because they are actively playing and trading on legacy and have exceeded a threshold?
The unlimited listing with a steep gold curve for extra space would be a nice interesting option.
Any buyable functional aspects… no, generally a no there. EHG shines through the current situation of the gaming market with their focus on avoiding any functional payment outside of the shelf-price, which is a good thing. Their focus on providing and marketing new MTX though is still mediocre at best, but overall their direction is the ‘right’ one definitely. And I would enjoy to see it staying, it’s a major aspect as to why I’m vocal on the Forum rather then staying away like in most other games, LE is deemed worthwhile enough by me because they don’t lean into the cash-grab aspects but rather make a game which can be played by everyone in a similar manner.
Me for example, I’m a legacy player. 3,5k listing currently since I didn’t put in items for a while now and stopped the idol spamming. Though my RSI is easing up again which will make me post another 2-3k listings shortly.
And plainly spoken? That shouldn’t be possible. Having 100-200 listings should suffice completely, with the situation becoming more expensive after 50-100 listings on the market. Anything beyond simply destroys the space for newer players as I can easily list enough items per day to outfit 50-100 players with decently good items every single day if I dedicate myself to playing without major downtimes. Doesn’t leave much space for slower people or people which don’t have 8 hours non-stop on a weekend to invest into the game.
Hence the threshold with scaling price is a fantastic idea and should provide a good balancing for the market while avoiding the inflation in such a major aspect.
For that we need the improved UI for your own stall though, otherwise it’s a disaster to find the right items to remove at any given time.
The problem is amplified by the fact that there are way too many legacy players.
This is supposed to be a cyclical game, copied from PoE, where a large (I believe) majority of players play in seasons.
But LE is, right now, a cyclical game without cycles: the content is exactly the same in legacy and cycles. And as a result, far more people play LE in legacy than PoE.
So yes, the market would probably need a reset, because the entire model is based on regular resets.
Until cycles happen and legacy becomes less crowded, a limit on the amount of listings seems to be the only solution.
No, that’s not something which ever should happen or even need to happen.
PoE has no issues in Standard because the amount of currency needed to craft top-tier items is insanely high… but achievable. This causes the need for hundreds of players to support indirectly a single crafter to make that happen though.
Which is fine and understandable.
In LE we don’t have that though. Your crafts are freely accessible, neither shards, glyphs nor runes are in any way scarce… the contrary, they’re utterly abundant outside of a distinct few. The only scarcity is with bases where you can craft, and those bases also get ‘destroyed’ with every failing craft needing to be re-grinded. This is the bottleneck.
That causes bases to have insane prices for top-tier ones. A top-tier base with a rare T7 affix on it that’s actually usable can easily cost 50+ mil… while the same affix as a T6 on a bad base can often push the price down to 100k or 1mil instead. That’s quite the massive disparity there, the only saving grace being the legendary system to even keep some sort of value available.
And that also won’t change since supply simply can’t exist in the quantity needed to support any size of a playerbase. More players means more demand… but the supply per player stays extremely low nonetheless. A single day of farming provides maybe 1-2 of those bases if you’re lucky, and those often have a affix spread which doesn’t even provide an inkling of getting a ‘perfect’ (T7 + 3 T5 with the exact right affixes needed, not even talking sealed or anything beyond) as an outcome. Some bases cost hundreds of millions simply because they provide already pre-rolled affixes which are the ‘right’ type fitting to the T7, simply because they’re that rare. And it still doesn’t provide a guarantee to get the outcome you want after all.
The current issue is that any base is a consumable until it’s made perfect, and any bought base is automatically ‘consumed’ as they can’t be re-sold anymore. This creates a massive scarcity on the market at the top-end… with abundance at the lower end.
There simply is no ‘middle-ground’ available, or at least it’s a extremely slim bit. Your items are either worth the world… or nothing, causing MG players to solely play for the ‘jackpot drop’ rather then gradual increases.
The game needs more gradual aspects of progression rather then sudden extreme jumps.
True for big concurrent online and nice variety of desirable balanced builds to make. And it is going to be a pale horse for non-meta experiments as no one will be selling enough strange combos of affixes and unpopular unique items with this restrictions.
I’m OK with some possible wipes, we need to get rid of piles of overpriced junk from dupy era, but I’d like to see a bunch of “Nerf meta” and “Make affixes great again” changes before hard limitation
Wipes shouldn’t be necessary at all. The common way for overabundance of items to phase out of existence is either simply with time… and secondary through power-creep, which is a natural aspect of any live-service game as it progresses onwards.
With new content there’ll come new ways to craft or get items. New types of items, a new upper ceiling to reach overall. Which LE has 2 issues though. The first being that they implemented their itemization progression with such a massively high ceiling (acquisition of a perfect item would take more time then every human in existence has had on earth put together to have a mathematically realistic chance to get it) that implementing new ways in the core progression is extremely hard, it needs a baseline rework simply said. The second is that currently there’s no ‘middle-class build line’ available. Balance is very much all over the place with outliers deemed as the only viable option, middle tier builds being surprisingly rare and nonetheless a good chunk of underperforming builds available. For a 1.1 state that’s fairly atrocious balance-wise.
We don’t need a ‘nerf meta’, what’s needed is substantial amounts of content in 1.2 and beyond. The biggest issues currently are a lack of long-lasting content which doesn’t get extremely repetitive in basically no time as either there’s no type of content beyond it anymore (pure corrupton grinding has that issue) or the available content seems impossible to achieve (Aberroth being beyond the means of many builds and for the ones which can handle it reliably beyond the means of many players).
Then with the content handled the game needs substantial balancing swipes to provide a proper baseline which is ‘good enough’ to be deemed viable by the majority of the community, but with long-term options to gradually (rather then lucky singular item drop, necessary multi-progression step-by-step things instead) empower them beyond that stage with effort and optimally also knowledge.
So the currently existing items in MG should loose inherent value anyway, making it useless to remove them as they simply won’t be picked up.
But weeding out non-active listing would be a good thing, for example with the limited listing amount, removing the cheapest items anyone has listed beyond the (for example) 100 item limit… and enforcing to pay Gold for each item with increasing amounts needed to allow listing them again.
Would save substantial amounts of database size, make the system more stable and responsive and also allows the players to have a better overview of the market while still providing a space for newcomers to list items and interact properly to a degree. Because plainly spoken in Legacy you start throwing away T7 exalted items because they’re literally listed with ‘0’ gold more often then not. That’s a bad state for the reliably best items you can actually list, T7+T6 items are extremely rare and nigh unicorns in MG with fitting combinations, and anything beyond can be counted on both hands for even existing.
Instead of wiping the entire bazaar and all items in it, maybe wipe the items on the bazaar listed by inactive accounts? The devs could choose a length of time an account has been inactive, and when the account reaches the threshold, the listed items will be placed in read only stashes, or a new menu within the Bazaar that holds these items.
This could help alot with the bloat of items that no one will realistically buy, while also not punishing active Legacy players with alot of listings. Though, as people have already said, reworks and changes to the Bazaar Interface could fix this same problem.
I believe items should unlist after 500-750 days, all items should unlist on accounts who have been inactive for extended periods of time, and the UI of the Bazaar should get a major overhaul, allowing those with insane amounts of items listed to be able to re-list them at more competitive prices.
I am also a big fan of two ideas mentioned in this thread:
After 100-200 listings, begin to make subsequent listings cost more and more gold, or pay gold to increase a set “max listings”, similar to stash tabs.
Introduce a graph displaying the history of any given items value, similar to what you find in the steam marketplace when listing something.
I prefer the Bazaar to Circle of Fortune and hope that it gets enough love to become competitive, and make both factions viable overall. I am still a fan of the idea that the Bazaar is good for early-mid empowered, but falls of at the late-game where CoF becomes better for minmaxxing, however I feel like at this point in LE, CoF is favourable above MG at any stage.
EDIT: Also perhaps make the aforementioned “pricing history graph”, somehow available for at least uniques, without having to actively go to the Bazaar. This would make it easier to find all the pricings for every single thing you see that could be semi-valuable or complete junk without having to take it all back to your stash and sit in the bazaar searching listings.
Maybe it just needs to be easier to filter out extremely old (200+ days?) listings. I haven’t seen a reason in this thread telling me why items that people don’t want to buy must be removed from the actual market instead of simply ignored. Is LE running out of database room or something?
Steam can manage this because the items sold on Steam Marketplace are commodities with identical utilities, and can be compared directly to one another. This plainly doesn’t apply to most rare and exalted items, since even one affix being different changes the potential end state of the item.
Even unique items with the same legendary potential have some spread in utility, since variance in the modifier ranges can really change the item’s appeal.
That said, being able to access a history of items sold with search filters would be nice. (Show all items with X affix on Y base, and figure out prices from there)
You can have a simplified method for display hence. Even a partial knowledge base is better then none.
For example having the database allow to gather the base, required level, affixes and tiers of those on a sold item. Now you got a setup where you can basically gather all the information you might ever need.
Wanna see how much Solarum Greaves with a required level of 70 sold in the last 7 days? Here you go, graph.
Wanna see how the same base with T6 Health sold? Here you go, graph.
And so on and so forth. It’s a method to provide information for high variance items, works fantastic.
Sure, you need to have the ‘sweet spot’ of complexity chosen to get any reasonable returns you can make sense of… but that’s on the player-knowledge side, it’s simply a tool to allow price checking if you understand a market at a baseline level.
And especially for unique items it’s easy to implement. Path of Exile already has that. Roll range, display of available items. Done. In the form of a database for already sold items this simply causes extra information to be given, which can be very important as in Last Epoch the roll-range itself is in most cases not - yet - important to take into consideration. Crafting barely allows to get the right affixes slapped on it, re-rolling ranges? A dream-situation simply. And even if we take into consideration roll-ranges… those can be slapped into the database as well, it’s one extra check, might be doable without slowing it down too much.
A graph does exactly that… only visualized. Nothing more and nothing less.
The issue comes when people look at listings hundreds of days old and put up their own prices to match those. It causes a constant feedback loop of items staying overinflated and stops prices from ever meaningfully changing, which is bad when things are constantly fluctuating in and out of the meta, or recieve buffs/nerfs.
This problem is compounded by the fact that most items were originally put up for sale during the gold dupe, and become completely unaffordable despite the fact that they arent overly rare/good.
Leaving all of those items in the Bazaar not only ruins any semblance of a “player driven” economy, but also makes buying items tedious since you scroll through hundreds upon hundreds of pages full of junk no one has touched, nor will touch, in well over a year.
I also understand that the steam marketplace graph is completely different because the markets are fundementally different, I was more trying to give a better description of what the “price history graph” would look like more than how it would function, to hopefully give a better visual idea for people who might not have fully understood.
I do agree the graph could not take into account modifier ranges, or at least it would overcomplicate it, but even a simple graph that didnt take into account rolls within tiers would be infinitely better than what we currently have.
