Windows Gui Crash when LE hided with NCS WinVisible tool

Bug Reports
1

Hi!

Windows Gui Crash when Last Epoch hided with NCS WinVisible small application.
It is happening within a few minutes, was in hero creation screen this time, but earlier I was just the very first screen with Start Game button.

https://www.neptunecentury.com/projects/winvisible

It is a small tool that hide an Application from Windows Taskbar and working fine All the other Programs and Games without any problem, until now where hiding Last Epoch will result with a lot of different Windows GUI Glitches and Crashes seen in the Screenshot.

DxDiag.zip (12.4 KB)
Player.log (874.8 KB)

https://imgur.com/a/Bjm4Laj

As you see in the Screenshot, the right side of the screen goes Black where some Windows Widget could have been, but I don’t use any of those, maybe some Win settings would pop-up without success. Top let corner and some part of Windows Taskbar also bugged.
Last Epoch can not Opened back up, and need to restart Win 8.1 to have a proper UI showing back up again.

This would be very nice if you could fix it, as this tool is very useful and simple, really working with all the other applications/games. Using it for 5-10 years without any problem, until now.

Thank you very much for your looking after this bug,
Tibor

2

Hey, Welcome to the forums…

If you temporarily disable this WinVisible tools, does LE cause any problems on your system?

The WinVisible tool is pretty old now and unfortunately based on its use case, it may not be doing things in a way that something newer like LE likes - the things that it professes to do are not normal by any means and it may be doing something that is no longer appropriate when interacting with other applications - especially newer versions. In fact, the player.log is full of debug problems with DirectX and Unity (the underlying game engine that LE is written in) that could be being caused by this app.

I am not entirely sure that it is in EHGs interest to change their game so that it works with this particular niche application from 2014 that perhaps a handful of people use (based on the forums for this app)… Obviously thats up to EHG but I doubt it… Perhaps the app may start working again with LE once its out of beta, but I would not expect it to (imho).

Aside: the diagnostic section of your dxdiag (end of the file) shows lots of WindowsUpdateFailure3 errors - obviously this points to something that is failing on your machine related to updating Windows… This needs to be checked and corrected as it could be that something that is failing to update is actually critical to your system.

While you are at it, you should also make sure that your system is properly updated the latest Win 8 patches and double check that your graphics drivers are up to date…

3

Thank you the answer.

No, the problem not arise when just playing the game normally.
Only causing crash when hiding the application. If it is just running parallel with LE its fine.

I guessed you would point out that this is an old application and that will cause the problem, probably its true. Old things not always meant, outdate and bad.
But if that will be the cause, why ALL the other applications and games working fine with WinVisible tool, I am just wondering? Only LE has a different way of graphics engine?
I know this will be very low priority, but would be useful to have a look, maybe turned out that something is not at 100% right in the code and can be improved with other field of the game too? Who knows?

I think it would not be a big hussle, just install it and have a look as not know a replacement of this tool, that is working fine otherwise. Just repetaing myself not found any other game NOT working with WinVisible. Then you can eliminate the problem may cause in my system, but I doubt effecting only here. Using on a different machine too.

Win8.1 is updated regularly here, just checked last week and Nvidia Driver is a fresh one too.
Few years earlier tried the Win10 version here, but reverted to 8.1 as some features not worked for my taste earlier, maybe will be done an upgrade again later, but not tomorrow. It could cause some UpdateFailure errors in logs?

4

True but if they are asked to interact with newer applications then things start to go wrong… Its like trying to use an old android phone - it works fine as a phone and all the apps designed for it still work fine… but dont try and install a newer app or a new version of an existing old app and expect it to work on the phone perfectly.

LE is new and is built on underlying technology that uses new features available to it that were not around in 2014 and its beta and unoptimised so ANYTHING that its not expecting is likely to make it crash.

The WinVisible tool is also doing something that is not normal use for most people - in fact I am struggling to understand why anyone wants a hotkey to hide a window on their system… I can think of a few things but will not mention them here. :grimacing:

Its likely that the function WinVisible is calling to hide the app is deprecated or simply not used anymore or LE doesnt understand it. When interacting with a complex thing like a game that relies heavily on everything related to the graphics subsystem, anything that tries to do something abnormally can cause problems and this obviously is what its happening.

No chance in hell… I do not install small arbitrary apps like this on my systems. Thats just asking for trouble these days with everything from viruses to ransomware. I dont even trust Microsoft let alone some unknown developer somewhere in the world that has released an closed source app. Sorry, not happening.

If you went from 8.1 to 10 and then reverted the same system back to 8.1 then I am amazed your system is still running… Personally I would have just re-installed a clean version of 8.1 - there is no telling what messed up with that process…

You can try the System file checker to check that all your windows system files etc are correctly updated and there is nothing corrupted etc…

5

Interesting talk this will start.

I have just replaced my Samsung S4 phone this year, not because it has problem as an Android phone, just because it got hardware error after 6-7 years. Believe it or not, it was still working fine for many years.

LE is a new game, as Scavengers, Wolcen, Destiny2, all the Blizzard games, including the new ones should not interact, but somehow they ALL does work together in a miracle way :slight_smile:

Just guess, I am playing usually in Windowed Fullscreen mode, which is best for my usage as I am often alt-tab out to check something else during game-plays and using this mode is much quicker at task switches.
Since we use the same PC with wife, and if I let my game window just there, it will pop-up for her when she start and application not using full-screen or wish to change to other application. It is not comfortable to her. So this is the main reason I hide it to give PC to her usage for 5-10 mins without fumbling game screen.

Not even need to install the WinVisible, it is running from a directory alone, its source code is up on Github as I see. Using Eset SmartSecurity here, was no alarm for many years.

Again tried to blame my 8.1 system, which had been running ok for many years is not good way to find out the source of the problems. The revert back to Win 8.1 features was there after the upgrade for a reason and it worked fine, no other problem aroused, still doing the regular updates, Windows 8.1 running fine. Win 10 was on the PC for 1 day only.
Just bought a NAS recently, earlier served as a file server for the family, somehow it worked, I do not know why, after all these ‘problems’ should be here wit it.
But, you are welcome to visit my home and see how many things and games running fine in this ‘wrecked’ system, despite is ‘only’ an old and rusty Win8.1…

6

Maybe.

But seriously this is such an obscure application that I have to ask if its really that important - you can just not use it when you play LE and the problem would be resolved without any trouble for anyone.

I too use an old Sony Xperia from 2014… It works fine but I cannot install new android or any of the newer apps without lots of problems.

Comparing other games serves zero point… LE is not even released yet.

Your use case obviously works for you - I dont see the point in doing things that way but then my opinion on how or why you use it is irrelevant.

I am not blaming Win 8.1 for anything and your comments about your old rusty system are totally irrelevant… I am saying that your system is reporting errors (not me… your system) that you need to fix… Its like a car with old dirty oil, eventually problems will happen with your engine if you dont replace the oil. How these errors happened is not something I care to waste my time on but doing upgrades and downgrades on a system without a clean installation is a known potential cause of problems over time - especially with Windows systems which tend to become slower and cluttered with applications and other things the longer you use them… I have never used or seen a Windows end user system that did not benefit from a reinstall every few years…

My advice to you would be to just stop using the app while you are playing LE and when you wife needs to use the PC, just shut the game down. It really isnt any easier than that…

7

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