Will LE get a graphical rework for the ugliest areas/parts of the game? + more visual coherency on environment design? (in-game screenshots + analysis)

While playing through the game lately (this being my first time back in roughly 8 months), it is becoming more obvious how much the older ‘legacy’ assets lag behind the high bar set by the newer content in the game.

My question is if your graphics team working on LE are considering using resources like ESRGAN (Enhanced Super-Resolution Generative Adversarial Network) for texture upscaling or automated PBR generation to bring dated environments up to speed without the massive time sink of manually rebuilding areas, etc. from scratch?

Also, using tools like RTX Remix or Topaz seems like it would be a much more efficient way to ‘up-res’ old tiling textures and props so they actually react correctly to the current lighting engine.

Other tools worth mentioning are 3D Model Generation that can take 2D reference images (or existing low-poly models) to generate a higher-detail 3D model, and Mesh Optimization and Retopology that can take high-density, old models and clean them up (retopology) in modern engines while retaining high-fidelity visuals.


An example of where LE gets it right, visually, during my playthrough again?

The Temple of Eterra (in the Ruined Era). That particular area shows sheer scale, an awesome level of detail, and it gives players the impression that somebody on the graphics team actually has passion and cared to make the area look good! More of that, please!


Here are a few dated areas (graphics-wise) and impractical mechanic assets (doors, levers, bridges, and general lack of physics) I have come across throughout the game:

Note: I have no idea why the text within my spoilers are all caps…

Side note on the Ambient Occlusion graphics option in the Settings

Turn Ambient Occlusion in your Graphical Settings to ‘Very Low’ and you will see some of the most glaring issues with the graphics, notably in earlier-developed areas.

It is the one graphics option that is the ‘mask’ that hides a lot of the flaws, regardless of all other settings being set to ‘Very High’ or ‘Ultra’. You will even see things far off in the distance you’ve likely never seen before (like under bridges from high up).

When traveling to the Cultist Camp area, this screenshot demonstrates the lack of physics on the chains (completely still, and a few, floating unattached to anything). The light posts in this area (with lanterns hanging from them) also never move with no sway to them.

In other words, some parts of the world in LE lay completely still and lifeless. It would be nice to see more life added to the game via physics added.

Props to the audio guy, though, who added the sound of the chains swaying in the wind, yet it lacks the physics to go with the audio : )

In The Osprix Warcamp area, the hinges on the door here (among other doors throughout the game, aside from maybe magical ones) can use some visual mechanical improvement since it would never move/open.

In fact, the door itself in this area is silly given players can theoretically go around and just not use it at all (if the path blocking wasn’t there around the structure).

And yea, while not everything has to make sense in a game, things like this make the game seem like it was rushed (in spite the reasons, at the time) earlier in the game’s development.

The feet on this NPC within the Last Refuge Outskirts area are backwards. The anatomy of the feet is very awkward.

A graphical mess here in The Armory area. It explains itself.

And then there is The Armory area of the game… The general bridge’s mechanics here are glaringly impractical and would never work! Ever. There are also other gears, etc. just spread about for aesthetic appeal vs. actual function. Maybe it’s just me but I couldn’t pass pointing this one out.

On why the bridge, as shown, would never work, etc.

The lever - The most glaring issue is the size of that lever. To lift a heavy wooden and metal bridge, you need an immense amount of torque. The lever in the image is barely longer than our character’s arm. Unless our character has the physical strength of a tectonic plate, they would never be able to pull that lever against the weight of the bridge. Normally, you’d see a capstan (a vertical rotating hub pushed by multiple people) or a massive series of reduction gears to make this possible.

The chain vector problem - The angle of the chain… It is pulling almost horizontally… To lift a drawbridge, you need a vertical component of force. And because the chain is nearly parallel to the bridge? Most of the force applied by the mechanism is just pulling the bridge INTO its own hinges (creating massive friction) rather than lifting it UP. And so in a more functional drawbridge, the chains are usually attached to high towers so they can pull at a steep upward angle.

The floating gear - Randomly, there is a gear sitting in a slot next to the lever. However, it is not connected to anything… For a gear to assist in lifting, it needs to be part of a ‘gear train’ where a small gear (connected to the lever) turns a larger gear to multiply force.

Material integrity and a little trip down Thermodynamics - The bridge is suspended almost directly over lava… Wood ignites at around 300°C. Lava is typically between 700°C and 1,200°C, or even up to 2,000°C+, depending on its composition. The bridge in the screenshot above I provided wouldn’t just be hot but an active bonfire. Lol.

Lack of a counterweight - Most drawbridges, as the one shown, use a ‘counterweight’ system that allows a human-sized force to move a massive object because the weight of the bridge is balanced by a heavy stone or lead block. The mechanism in the screenshot is purely brute force (which, given the flimsy wooden supports holding the chain) would result in the entire thing being ripped out of the floor the moment tension is applied.

In short, the bridge works because it’s magic physics. And the lever works only because the game code says it does. Yea, yea, I know, some of you guys likely already knew that, but it’s fun to point these things out, anyway : )

Another useless gear. But not only that, it’s just floating within a rectangular black box of nothing.

Ah, but in The Maj’elka Waystation are, I did see a little improvement later on in the game regarding ‘gears’ and how they work together : )

In The Sheltered Wood area, the geometry of the stones here is unnatural looking, and the way in which the trees/branch-offs cut into stone structures makes certain assets in the game seem like they were placed wherever in a hurry with little effort put into the area designing.

An artifact in The Sapphire Quarter area? The black intersecting squares look like artifacts. Coming across things like this shows how dated the game is in certain areas.

Let’s talk about the Town - The Oracle’s Abode (in the Imperial Era)… Walk to the Waypoint and the area looks decent… but walk a little northwest and the transition is comical in a 'Wtf happened here?!" kind of way. It’s like whoever designed this section of the Town had an ‘F-it’ moment right then and there.

This screenshot shows a perfect example of sheer laziness in some parts of the game during development earlier on. The carpets are just strewn about and they don’t even look like they belong in the general area at all.

This screenshot shows how badly the Ambient Occlusion in the game was implemented and how it greatly obscures things off in the distance (and also hides the game’s visual flaws). One of the neatest things while going through this area (The Sheltered Wood) is seeing the giant creature, down below, roaming about… barely.

However, this shows an early-on attempt by the developers to make the environment seem more ‘alive’ vs. being static as players play through the game.

Unfortunately, the creature down below only remains for a little bit and then disappears. It would be nice to see more creatures like this, animals, etc. roaming about in the distance in the world of LE in areas of very large ‘scale’ (like The Temple of Eterra, as mentioned earlier).

Unrelated to the environment of the game

Skills like Volcanic Orb (when converted to Frozen orb) can use a little more love, visually.

Thank you for your team’s time in reviewing this and other feedback on LE.
Xalviloph

I think your forum thread title os very misleading and doesn’t really represent what kind of feedback you give.
Most of you examples and screenshots are actually not criticising the actual graphics, but rather the practicallity or how coherent the world looks.

I think every single patch always contains some kind of rework or overhaul of old assets, be it environment, enemies or characters. And except for the 1.0 patch which included a massive lighting change, which was very very noticeable I think it was always small steps towards an overall better game for graphics.

I personally think that LE already looks amazing, especially if I compare it to the EA stage of 0.7.X - 0.9.X. I am always amazed of how good LE looks when I start playing again after a bit of a break, because still up to this point my overwhelming majority of playtime with LE was in the EA stage. So from that perspective the game evolved A LOT.

The title is pretty straightforward, and it represents exactly the feedback I am giving. And yes, all throughout the post, I am constructively criticizing both the graphical nature of the game (via the screenshots) and the impracticality of certain things (e.g., mechanical stuff) during the design phase of said structures.

Further, in the beginning of the post, I directly ask the devs (food for thought when going through the post) whether or not they are going to use technology that is out there to streamline graphical updates more quickly, versus doing things completely from scratch.

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about the game not coming a long way from where it started. In the very beginning of the post, I wrote, ‘…it is becoming more obvious how much the older ‘legacy’ assets lag behind the high bar set by the newer content in the game.’

I said it right there: older assets lagging behind the ‘high bar’ set by ‘newer’ content in the game.

With all due respect, it seems you just skimmed through the post without actually reading it and seeing that, yes, I did constructively criticize the graphical nature of the game and the impracticality of certain design decisions for mechanical structures that would never work.

P.S. As an extra side note, I also have a topic line regarding where LE gets things right, visually, and expressing wanting to see more of that kind of quality throughout the rest of the game, drawing a direct contrast between poorly designed areas and well-designed areas for the devs to take another look at.

Toward the end, LE looks really nice, but new players especially are drawn to the game by first impressions. And where do first impressions happen? More towards the beginning of the game. Hence, the reason I created this post. Instead of just writing bodies of text, I gave very clear examples of what needs improvement.

I appreciate your feedback, regardless, even though I disagree with you when you said, “Most of you examples and screenshots are actually not criticising the actual graphics, but rather the practicallity or how coherent the world looks.” when I did all the above, including the actual graphics of the game.

Well “graphical overhaul” sounds like well a complete overhaul. Which will very likely never come. They just step by step improve things.

I did not skim through your post, I did read and look at all, but the very first two examples you gave a pure coherency and not even "graphics"followed by more examples that are mostly “non graphical”

Just to be clear everything you gave feedback about I agree with, but how you packaged it looked weird on first glance.

I would not call your request a “Graphical Overhaul”, but instead asking for better Visual in genberal, with a focus on coherency and how realistic things look and how much sense the world and environment makes.

Yes I know, but again the term you are using in your thread makes it sound like you want LE to have a big revision.

Well that’s fair, but still half of your examples are not even targeting the actual quality of the textures, but rather their placement, coherency, praticallity or generally how much sense they make or fit into the picture.

All I am saying is, that that is not what anybody would thing, when reading “graphical overhaul”

But yeah many of the places you were talking about did already got partial updates in the past, but I expect them to redo and overhaul many of the ones you mentioned.

Don’t worry, it’s not an issue with your post. Often we get knee-jerk reactions to anything criticizing Last Epoch, no matter how constructive it is.

I will try, then, to make the title of the post a little clearer be more all-encompassing. When I stated “+ analysis included on the ugliest area/parts” I was implying mainly just those parts of the game, not the entire game in general, which makes no sense since towards the end of LE, the game looks great.

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How is agreeing with feedback, but pointing out, that it was presented in a ambigious way knee-jerk-y? :thinking:

Also this makes it sound like as soon as somebody criticizes LE I just bring them down, which is objectively untrue, totally opposite, I encourage that. I myself criticized A LOT about LE in the past.

I didn’t know where you were initially coming from until your next reply. That’s why. You made yourself clearer and I improved the title as a result.

So, instead of being prideful and not taking your criticism at all (after you elaborated), and arguing with you any further that the original title was good enough, I improved it instead.

I thank you for your feedback. And yea, most people come on here and they just crap on people’s posts just to crap on them, and that’s what your initial response sounded like, imho.

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No, @Heavy is right after hearing them out. The title needed to be clearer. I stand corrected. Sometimes it takes misunderstanding (civilly) to better understanding each other. The post is good yet the title was not spot-on. It’s all good : )

While its graphic fidelity might not be omg mega crazy.

it runs well on every pc ive played it on from a 10 year old one, to a modern one.

And what I can say, is all my friends who play arpgs like that LE actually has areas and zones that bright and vibrant.

I love many arpgs, but if you tell me grimdawn or poe look better then LE on a subjective scale ill just disagree. As those games are so fucking dark and drab and just depressing to look at.

I love last epochs use of colors and zones being all varied and lit up.

And I agree with you! My post is simply pitching the question to the developers on whether or not they are going to use some of the latest technology to help bring the graphics up to scale, like how more towards the end of the game looks in LE, all without ‘compromising’ the art ‘style’ of LE.

And no, Grim Dawn and PoE do not look as beautiful as LE, actually (imho as well). I have played both those games and I can honestly say that the color palette, etc., while not terrible, is more washed out and dull in PoE and Grim Dawn vs. LE.

The only other ARPG that competes, and arguably beats 'em all on a visual level, is Diablo 4.

However, LE doesn’t need to look that ridiculously realistic. The earlier parts of the game just need more visual reworks (graphics-wise) along with more ‘visual coherency’ in the environment design to be more on par with how the later stages of LE look.

LE strikes a very awesome balance between looking beautiful (notably later on in the game) and having the best gameplay loops I have seen in an ARPG without being oversaturated with complex gear/skill systems.