EHG why you hate the Marksman so goddamn much. I swear you’ve nerfed marksmen builds more then anything but your golden boy falconer is awesome, fun and op as hell. Why did you completely neuter the shotgun build? It’s so mediocre, honestly trash imo.
Your purpose might be better served by posting in Feedback and including more detail, but you do you.
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Might repost it there but seeing as this specificity is about a rouge class I find this to be the correct spot for it. Also as I’m seeing a few other asking similar questions of why Marksman is so weak, it seems right.
Oh sure, lots of people post stuff in the wrong place.
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Which skill are you talking about? Multishot?
I would agree, detonating arrow and hail of arrows are the only good bow skills right now
Flurry, Puncture and multishot are garbage
Ember strike is too situational to be a good main bow skill and explosive trap is only bow skill if you use a ton of points(6 points for it to be bow and explode on impact), including going through the “extra max traps” which does literally nothing for a bow build because the traps explode on impact.
Marksman is not the only mastery where there are a boatload of skills that are useless, beastmaster is only good with wolves, also everything shamon has besides the totems costs too much mana for its dps.
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And I wondered why my archer is so unless now when trying her again 
. Besides the tiny hitbox, damage is a joke. Rain of Arrows is no acher skill for me. That’s cheap area damage.
But on the other side… which game does not hate pure ranged archers?
I don’t know how to fix that, if you don’t want to allow arches to destroy everything from a save distance risking nothing.
On the other side: My dagger marksman built destroys everything. Just not ranged 
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Facts man. Im really starting to think most the EHG devs really hate Marksman in particular because all they do is nerf it despite there being much stronger builds.
There haven’t been any nerfs since 1.0 launched. There have been bug-fixes, but those were 1) voted on by the community, and 2) simply fixing how a skill works in the back-end, meaning the interaction wasn’t working as it was envisioned.
Bug-fixing and nerfing are not the same thing, even if the end-result of a bug being fixed can feel like a nerf.
Also my main currently is a Blast Rain marksman and I’m having a blast, literally. Puncture is super fun for high bleed stacking and penetration builds. Flurry is great for proccing Multishot, even if the bug where it could cast like 100 Multishots per second got fixed prior to 1.0 releasing.
I think a big issue is people want every single skill to feel overpowered, which by doing so would remove the feeling of any skill feeling overpowered.
It also depends on what you consider end-game pushing. T4 Julra? Pretty much any Marksman skill, if built right, can do that. 2,000 corruption? That’s not a good indicator of what makes a good build, since it’s mostly permitted due to ward-scaling which isn’t really relevant to the masteries themselves, overall.
Prior to 1.0 releasing a build was top tier if you could do corruption 400-600, and that was prior to the corruption squish that took place, meaning that would now be equivalent to around 250-500 corruption now, damage scaling wise.
You are explaining something obvious. Bug-fixing is a term used to describe an action. Nerf is a term used to describe a consequence. Very often, as in this case one is the direct cause of the other.
Because it is.
Detonating Arrow only became good because of how broken Explosive Trap is. DA by itself is really bad when you selfcast it.
HoA is the only non bugged strong marksman skill atm.
Channel Flurry is bugged again with one of the last hotfixes, self cast Multishot can’t compete with any other high performing builds. Bow Puncture is good with mirage shadow daggers.
Cinder Strike currently has some weird oneshot bug.
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In particular physical based bow builds are extremely underpowered because there’s only two places you can get flat bow damage (Bow and quiver) unlike throwing and melee which have way more options thus making scaling them way easier and there’s skills that uses both tags this just making them even stronger. I don’t wanta hear the classic “Oh look I can make it work” that isn’t the point, the point is bow is underpowered, especially physically based and up to this point it’s received nothing but nerfs. The strongest Marksman build involves Blast knives and scales off melee damage yet the shotgun build got nerfed, fuck out of here.
nah, det arrow self cast is known for hitting for tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands depending on the setup. Though this is mostly with Jelkhor’s Blast Knife so perhaps you are correct in this case(as jelkhors is a dagger not a bow)
I got around 300-500k crits with bow setup and up to 1mio with jelkhor selfcast in 0.9
You can do a mana stack/coated blades dark quiver setup reaching around 5mio crit explosions with a bow…horrible playstyle though and not recommended.
Even though the numbers sound good, i already had single target problems at around 200-300 corruption in 0.9. (either related to mechanical slow attack speed with bow or survival issues with jelkhor due to low weapon range)
1.0 added nothing else than Explosive Blast.
And explosive blast made DA the most broken skill, even though it has nothing to do with DA itself 
Even with the jankyness, that is still WAY better than most bow skills.
Play Forge Guard for a while. It will give you some perspective on what class the devs may hate.
Yes 2k+ is a bad indicator of a good build.
Why?
Devs have said 300-400 corruption is the target when it comes to build balance. So if a build can do 300-400c it is by no means underpowered.
Players need to realize going much higher than 300-400c isnt really intended
Explosive Trap is hard carrying several builds right now. Detonating Arrow, explosive flask, cold flask, Dive Bomb. Basically, if Explosive Trap can trigger it or buff it, it is going to get better.
As someone who likes to play the trapper-type builds, I have no issue with that ability enabling so many different builds and having all sorts of fun interactions. We need some other abilities to be looked at for this level of interactivity though, because right now Explosive Trap is too critical to certain abilities being good.
Would be great to see something like Cinder Strike, Flurry, Puncture etc triggering other abilities or being triggered by more abilities.
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Explosive trap is so so broken man
Personally i dont need any more trigger/proc skills.
I wanna see skills like self cast Detonating Arrow, Acid Flask, Multishot etc. being buffed first to add more build variety and class identity. Ive never seen an arpg with such horrible support for the bow class.
Imo a proc should never outperform a selfcast version of a skill. As you said, explosive trap carries most of the meta rogue builds atm.
Mechanically no DA setup will ever outperform the explosive trap variation.
Explosive Traps’ design feels so rushed to compensate the players feedback on underperforming skills we gave for the last years.
Its basically the new Umbral Blades…
UB procs shadow daggers.
ET procs DA, AF and Ballista.
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Man, I want acid flask to be good by itself so bad. Just for kicks I juiced up an explosive flask build as far as it would go. Sadly the Explosive Trap version is just so much better, like not even in the same universe of power.
I can throw one flask with three little explosions around it (or multiple flasks that for some reason cannot all hit the same target), and my bird will throw a couple of his own every few seconds.
Compared to - five flasks at a time, self-guided, launching themselves to twice the distance they can be thrown, while my character gets dusk shrouds, shreds, and a ton of “on hit” procs.
That latter example is awesome to play with and I do enjoy just throwing endless explosives around. But as you say, the self-cast version of the ability should not be so mediocre compared to the proc version.
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