This game is one of the best of its kind. The crafting system, the loot filter, the difference between trash mobs and large pattern mobs, the whole thing is really fun and gives great scope for customization.
But the problem is, who in 2022 wants to walk from one pack of mobs to another with so few pack size. The slow movement tarnishes all the rest which nevertheless compile the best. I suggest to add free movement abilities that provide a fair way across classes to move and dodge in the game. Currently only rogueâs classe offers something decent in terms of mobility despite a rather long cooldown. This game does not have a high density of mobs, I often just watching myself walking without any other action necessary than waiting to land on something to kill.
Currently PoE with their archnemesisâs mods canât create a contrast between trashy mobs and strong mobs like you managed to do. I think it would be nice to take the opportunity and give players what theyâre looking for instead than maintaining a niche community that wants a slow game. IMO hackân slash is the successor to shootâm up and beat mâup with a more advanced side on itemization like an RPG, not a hiking simulator. Probably other solutions exist to make the game more nervous, but the movement skills as well as increasing the density and or the dangerousness from mobs requires concentration and self-transcendence which gives adrenaline to the player. It leads to a feeling of satisfaction much like PoE, dark souls or a danmaku (bullet hell).
Sentinels can zoom through a whole map if specced right, if you like fast paced you can throw a flag and dash to it only to dash to the next pack, rinse and repeat.
Mages and acolytes can teleport really far.
Primalists can jump huge distances and transformers are very mobile too, iâd say just the spriggan is slow because you need a unique if you want a movement ability.
What I always do once I get comfortable with a build is not engage the first pack I see, but rather gather a whole bunch of mobs as you walk around and then stuff can sometimes get pretty crazy, deadly even if you donât watch out with certain packs.
Sometimes I do find myself in a map with (almost exclusively) big mobs and then the packs do feel rather small, hope they fix that.
Hey there,
What I have an issue with is the mob diversity/ composition in certain echoes.
Often when there are certain big beefy encounters like siege golems they spawn in big packs. Sometimes they even have auras or bubbles that further increase their eHP and ttk. For me this creates less of a challenge but more if a chore. When I encounter an echo of these giant flesh guys that whirl their stones over their heads I just skip 5them and rush to the end. It would be ok if they would spawn in very small numbers inbetween other mobs. But most if the time these guys, when they appear in a map, make 30 or more % of the enemy population.
Thatâs really annoying. More annoying when they have modifiers like âmore healthâ. Killing them is not rewarding.
For the overall movement I have to disagree. I really am ok with the current speed. But I get that if you come from years of PoE, the speed feels bad.
Objectively Sentinel and Rogue are the fastest and most agile classes. The other classes feel less agile because their movement skills have higher cooldown. But Acolyte can be very fast with transplant. And when Teleport and Leap finally would be able to move the character over gaps and obstacles reliably, this would be nice.
You sure about that? The baseline cooldown for every movement skill apart from Shift & Reap which are 4s (Smite & Javelinâs movement nodes which add a 6s cooldown, though the cooldowns are shared, so thatâs probably less of an issue).
You might be right. This is a subjective statement from my side based on the feel. I remember Mike justify the Lunge ânerfâ with the recent skilltree overhaul with the statement that Sentinel was even faster than Rogue.
Now with the new Lunge tree we can spec into cd reduction/charges
But this is also part of what I wanted to say. Objectively the movement skills are similar. They just feel different - what also is not a bad thing imo. Leap also has gotten some cd reduction and has a far longer range than shift.
Another PoE player that feels all ARPGS need to be like PoE, surprise!.
I think mob density, monsters threat and mobility are all in a great spot, sure you could see some refinement here and there.
Mob density doesnât add much at anything, other than feeling you killed a lot of monsters, really, in PoE it just buys more tickets for loot, I prefer less and more meaningful enemies instead of lots of them.
I think monster threat in general is in a really good spot. Big attacks are telegraphed/predictable, you need to pay attention most of the time, many monsters have tools to quickly dispose the player if you stay still for too long,
I like movement in this game. Cooldown (usually short) makes it a choice, not a spamming tool to just go faster. If you waste your cooldown in moving faster maybe that skill is not ready for the next mob group, or you cannot easily dodge next attack in a boss fight.
@Krowkie@Ninakoru I ve probably played at all H&S since diablo 1 release and Iâm not a only PoE player. All other move skills feel slow. A cooldown under 1-2s should be a solution. But if they are no more mobs density a spamming touch as shield charge or leap slam should be better than walking.
@XLVI_carpo the mobs diversity/composition is especially the thing I feel the best in this game. sometimes they are a bit rough mobs composition but in the many case avoid patern from giant mobs and killing thrash mobs feels fun.
Iâve played in many guild about ARPG and the slow from this game was often/always the problem for many players. I think the small comunity on this game is ok with the actually game speed, but itâs probably not the case for attract more peoples.
Exactly, there are times I just want to unwind from the go go go mentality of daily life and chill through things. More go go go is not always fun, especially in PoE, a game that I have played since Alpha. We have to remind ourselves that PoE used to be a slow grind fest in its early days until it exploded with 10 years of development thrown at us.
With regard to the pack size being too small, I disagree
During early game pack size is too large as you have yet to get really decent clear options.(this is especially bad in the zone with all the void enemies that have homing void projectiles early in the game)
The issue is that pack size does not scale all that much based on area level.
Personally im glad how it is, its a middel ground between Grim Dawn and PoW, not too slow and not too fast. But with that said, i do like to see more move skills for better alternatives so its not always the same as 99% of all builds use the same class move skill always.
My âNo thanksâ on that is so strong that I would be perfectly happy if every movement skill was removed from the game.
The world does not need yet another ARPG thatâs balanced around spamming movement skills to blast through zones as fast as possible. When I want that gameplay experience, I will play POE, and all of yâall trying to make LE into it should do the same.
You know what i think? I think the best we can have is out of combat move speed (maybe affix on some items), I mean itâs boring when u run on clear space without any enemies. So maybe we got something like if 0 enemies on your screen, you run significantly faster and on time when someone appears buff is gone. If itâs hard for mechanical measures, we can have something like when we and our minions stop hitting anything and donât take any damage in pas 3-4 seconds, we got that buff for our move speed.
Personally I really like movement in this game.
As a general feedback, the movement skills I used in all my characters feel very responsive and pleasant to use.
The CD felt right for combat situations, but I tend to agree that out of combat it felt a bit long.
This is in particular true for the rogue. Shift is an amazing combat movement skill, but when out of combat you just spam shift to move a bit faster. The problem is that there is nothing interesting in using shift on cooldown, but its strictly better than any other option.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, on sentinel, between lunge, shield charge and javelin you have a lot of options on map traversal. I really like the minigame of running down corridors with shield charge for quickly traversing the maps, it is something I miss when using other classes.
The one gripe that I have with the movement skills is that gap-closing is very inconsistent. There are entire walls you can phase through with no issues at all, and there are obstinate pebbles which will completely stop you in your tracks.
ARPGs tend to trend towards higher speed and stimuli the longer they are around, and once either is increased, the majority of players donât want them lowered.
I see that EHG is very careful about this, and hope that theyâre able to keep it in check for as long as possible, because movement and attack/cast speed are almost always the flat-out best choice to make when building a character. Increased player speed also leads to gameplay balanced around the potential for that speed, and so enemies must be sped up as well, which shaves off available player reaction time until the game is go-go-go-DIE.
Density increase is also not necessarily healthy either; leading to not only visual clutter but the necessary homogenization of enemies. High-density usually means that efficient farming becomes filling the screen with low-impact, low-challenge enemies to be simultaneously deleted. Right now LE tries to have groups of enemies which compliment each other in different roles, and this is possible because their numbers are limited enough that the battlefield is uncluttered and the enemies are visually distinct from each other, not getting lost in a crowd. Less density also means I can see damage-dealing areas on the ground.
Travel skills encourage hyperspeed gameplay as well; a race to the finish line; not exploration or anticipation for the next group. Movement skills limited in scope to battle engagement or disengagement provide a tactical tool, but treating them as travel tools means spamming them repeatedly to get across maps, which is not skillful or fulfilling.
I would prefer to see a fairly low soft cap on both movement and attack speed, or better yet the boosts to either being situationally limited to give temporary tactical battle advantages, not being used as the standard game speed.
As for density, I like this game because it feels more like Iâm exploring environments instead of sprinting across fields of enemy-shaped eggshells. I donât mind trekking through a dungeon; other games feature high-speed adrenaline objective sprinting, and Iâm glad that LE provides an alternative.
The most racers on PoE play in SSF HC, itâs not a GO GO GO DIE gameplay. But if you are not gifted, you will probably die more often. . I fall asleep into Last Epochâs maps.
Nobody is disagreeing that you can blast through maps much faster in some other ARPGs than you can in LE. The disagreement is in whether or not LE should also follow that model.
Itâs great that you have 10 level 100 characters and Iâm sure your plaque will arrive soon. That doesnât change the fact that if youâre âfalling asleepâ in monos, a solution to that already exists - push your Corruption higher.
. I fall asleep into Last Epochâs maps.