I wonder, how people explain quite very low player’s retention. In POE 1, 1-month retention after new league was usually over 50%. In POE2 0.2, 1-month retention only around 20-25%, and 50% after two weeks. In LE, it’s around 30% after 2 weeks, so after 1 month it almost certainly will be lower than 15%. I have some thoughts why it could be the case, but I wonder what other people think. How you would explain lower retention than even in POE 2 0.2, which has reputation of the worst patch in ARPG games for many years? LE 1.2 patch can’t be even worse, right? Then why?
Both poe1 and poe2 are more time consuming games, I think.
You can do stuff quicker in LE.
That also means people reach the point where they feel they are “done” faster.
So if EHG significantly slow down the progress, retention will be much higher?
Comparing with POE 1 is not so interesting because POE 1 obviously has enormous amount of content. But POE 2 doesn’t have as much content, they made end-game quickly and it is relatively empty yet, so it shouldn’t be amount of content. I think, if progression through monoliths will be even slower, people will get bored even faster.
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I have no idea what would happen, if things were slowed down. Im not even sure its bad thing to be a “faster” game. In fact, it probably not bad nor good thing. Its just different game.
But people already complain that progression through monoliths should be faster. If it will be significantly slower, I’m quite sure response would be negative.
Sure, there is even genre like “coffeebreak roguelike”, which supposed to be completed for like 15-20 minutes. But people could play such game for a long time, over and over, so it doesn’t directly related to the player’s retention. LE looks to have very low replayability. It might be not bad indeed, people may enjoy to log in once per 6 months, play couple of weeks and forget about it. But I still wonder, why LE, for the average player, is not interesting to play for as long time as, for example, POE 2?
Я думаю, что причины, почему Last Epoch менее популярна, чем PoE1 и PoE2 заключаются в следующем:
- Last Epoch долго разрабатывается, новый контент выходит очень медленно.
|2. В Last Epoch очень мало игровых механик, которые предоставляли бы игроку выбор с основным направлением фарма.
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Last Epoch - очень лёгкая игра, с низким порогом вхождения. Здесь отсутствует даже классический штраф в опыте за смерть персонажа, что лишает игрока возможности почувствовать значимость собственной смерти. Когда смерть ничего не стоит - игроки быстро достигают капа по максимальному уровню. В том же PoE 1/2 взять 100-й уровень - это отдельная наука и интересный вызов сам по себе.
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Этот пункт может показаться странным, но в Last Epoch нет экономики. Да, в игру добавлен рынок, где каждый игрок может купить за копейки всё, что ему нужно, что само по себе является проблемой, сокращая жизненный цикл игры, но в игре нет ценных ресурсов для отмена, которые были бы эквивалентом золота. В PoE - это орбы, в Diablo2 - это руны, а в Last Epoch - это золото, которое легко добывается всеми просто во время игры. Хотя в Last Epoch таким ресурсом могли бы быть глифы и руны, которые уже являются частью крафтовой системы игры.
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В игре очень простой и доступный крафт. Это не позволяет игроку ощутить какой-то вызов и повышенный интерес в крафте нужных вещей. Очень легко всё скрафтить. И это негативно сказывается на игре, сокращая её жизненный цикл из-за того, что игроки быстрее достигают своих целей.
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Основная причина, почему разработчики PoE не добавляют в игру аукцион, заключается в том, что они понимают, что это сильно сократит жизненный цикл игры, потому что все смогут быстро и дёшево покупать необходимые вещи и продавать нафармленное. Я знаю, что разработчики Last Epoch не хотели бы видеть в игру внутриигровой рынок, который позволит сильно сократить жизненный цикл игры, но из-за данного ранее ими обещания, они были вынуждены прислушаться к игрокам и пойти у них на поводу, реализовав такую возможность. В итоге оправдались самые худшие ожидания, и вместо того, чтобы целенаправленно и долго фармить нужно вещи для интересных билдов, игркои просто заходят на рынок и покупают за копейки всё, что им нужно. Это, определённо, очень сильно сокращает жизненный цикл игры, потому что лишает игрока какого-то игрового вызова,
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В игре должны присутствовать высокоуровневые подземелья с очень сложными боссами и очень редким дропом ценных вещей, что сделает игру более осмысленной и интересной. В игре должны присутствовать билдообразующие вещи, которые очень сложно получить.
Это лишь часть того, что сразу приходит в голову при вопросе: почему Last Epoch уступает в популярности Path of Exile 1/2.
Раз уж спрашиваешь ChatGPT, мог бы его и на английском попросить ответить. Впрочем, его ответы все равно мало кому интересно было бы читать. Или это у тебя самого такая странная роботоподобная манера разговаривать?
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Я просто поделился своими мыслями.
There are several reasons besides brand recognition, needless friction so tasks take much longer etc.
It is mostly a combination of the following things, IMO.
In PoE2:
- Good loot drops are extremely rare
- Crafting is nonexistent. It’s 99% gambling.
- Therefore you cannot find or get lucky enough to craft items necessary to progress
- That makes currency accumulation mandatory for buying items
- But currency drops are scarce
- So you have to grind endlessly to acquire them
All of the above, in combination with slot-machine “crafting” mechanics that are addictive due to the nature of gambling, keep the players invested.
I would never expect the opinion that POE 2 has higher retention because of its crafting 
But it’s interesting point of view.
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I speak for myself when i say that poe2 is more fun to play than LE. Even with a crap or almost non existing craft system… LE always feels like… a bit meh… its a good game, it has potential but its kinda boring after a while… poe2 may be grindy and full of boring stuff, but… it manages to keep you engaged with the game more time.
Dont get me wrong i enjoy LE and i dont think we should compare it to POE or POE2… i think everyone should do what i do… play the games you enjoy no matter what other ppl opinions are… but for me the main reason i ditch LE earlier that poe2 is simple… the network code is terrible, the server stability is crap… and with 1 gbit internet connection the loading into the char screen takes 3m or more… so basicly for me… is the unfinished or broken network code that drives me away from the game. I do enjoy LE endgame more than i do POE2, but everytime i login and have to wait for 3m or more to get to the char select, or whenever i feel like lvling a toon and the game just freezes when going back to the char select screen and i have to force close it and open it again, wait another 3m, pray that all my chars appear on the list, if not… close the game and try again… so i end up just giving up on playing the game.
That is fair criticism. I personally extremely rarely have problems with servers but I’ve heard of many people who have. This is unfortunate and should be fixed ASAP. Even though I believe bad server stability does drive players away, I don’t think it’s the primary reason why PoE2 has more player retention than LE.
poe builds have more time to complete to kill all hard things
It might not be the main reason… but it is 1 of the reasons. I do find the end game more fulfilling than POE2, but… i end up trying all the classes on POE2 plus all the masteries… something i would like to do on LE but… i dont like waiting on the login so i end up making another toon on POE2 and ditching LE until something new is added to the game. Sometimes playing LE feels more like a chore than something fun to play… dunno why… i had a lot more fun a year ago playing LE than i do now… maybe its just me, but if feels something is missing… cant tell exactly why… but… i dunno… so ill just keep dividing my play time between POE2 and LE, maybe in the future they will find a way to keep everyone more engaged… it takes time to make a good ARPG and i do feel they are on the right path.
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Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.
To a lesser degree, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33.
And Path of Exile 2’s latest patch has reportedly improved the loot issues, leading some players to trying the game again.
Just as Last Epoch was very likely helped by how poor the Path of Exile 2’s latest patch was received, it’s rather likely that they were hurt by how other games have behaved these last weeks.
But killing Uber Abaroth probably would take a lot of time, I guess most of the people who are saying that progression in LE is much faster than in POE, didn’t actually kill him. Maybe somehow LE still has less end-game content than even POE 2, so progression to the Uber Abaroth feels empty and boring. Or, more likely, it feels very repetitive, so end-game content in LE doesn’t add much variety — it feels almost the same regardless of what content you are doing.
Not sure what you mean.
Some people have stopped playing Last Epoch because Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was released, and they went to play that game instead.
Just like some people went to play Path of Exile 2, were dismayed at how bad its latest big update had been, and were then incentivized to go play Last Epoch instead.
After thinking about it better… if i see it from the casual player point of view, poe2 campaing even unfinished is better, more fun and more challenging than LE campaign. I do find the campaign in LE quite boring… specially the “in game engine” scenes that you cant skip. So i would say that at this moment, the campaign in POE2 is better even with only 3 acts. But this is just my opinion, and i still say ppl should play whatever they want and enjoy and not whatever everyone else thinks they should be playing.
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I don’t see why it should affect LE significantly more than POE 2. POE 2 players can be interested in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion just as much.