This does seem about right. I’ve been trying to find a way to discuss this, but I think you’ve got it. The only arguments I’ve seen are “Five skills are too few because we should have ten” and “I’m too restricted to use a movement ability”. The first one doesn’t have any merit because we need a why 10 is clearly better than 5, which hasn’t been provided. Since a justification for needing 10 skills as opposed to five hasn’t been provided, there’s really nothing to discuss here. The best we have so far is “D2 has more slots, PoE has more slots, therefore LE should have more slots!” Which, without further justification as to why they should have more slots, is just the Is/Ought fallacy.
The movement skill thing has come up in the past, where it seems almost like a false choice, since most builds need a movement skill. That being said, not all builds need a movement skill, so I can see the reasoning behind leaving that up to player choice. I would also be fine if there was a defined slot just for movement skills.
In that case I want less slots in the skill bar. One that is assignable to left mouse, another on the right mouse button, then two extra (keyboard) instead of the current five and finally, one slot exclusive to a movement skill.
They feel mandatory. And there are some builds where a movement skill and everything you can do with it in the skilltree seems not to fit your build very well. In this case the movement skill is just a movement skill and using it will somehow weaken your build. Then you have to make the decision if you want to sacrifice damage for movement or vice versa. It feels a bit unfair to have to make that decision when there are other builds that can make very good use of the movement skill because its skilltree interacts with you build. The Transplant example is a good one. It has some minion support but this will always be less effective than having a summoning skill in that place. For me personally it’s always a sacrifice and I’m only using it if I really feel I need the movement for survivability.
My guess is that with time we will get more and more different movement skills so we have more choices. The Spellblade got Surge that opens up the build variety for that class. Maybe we get a cool movement skill for Necros that’s really a big support for minions instead of that 40% increased damage and some crappy bone minions you can summon .
And with that it wouldn’t feel very restrictive
There’s no need for more skills. Some people think that more = better, but this isn’t automatically true.
If other games “crush” LE then not because of the 5 skills limit.
So, you want 5 skill slots but the current 5 skill slots that the game provides is insufficient because… it provides too much flexibility?
For argument’s sake, if they did as you suggest, there’d be some (IMO, probably somewhat more) who’d want the exclusive slot to be able to be used for any skill.
Well, I didn’t consider the movement slot an actual skill slot because it’s limited in its functionality. More like a glorified utility hotkey similar to the potion or time shift hotkey. But now that I think about it, two skills on mouse buttons plus one free on keyboard and the movement hotkey would be even better.
That’s the whole point of my post, providing some opposition to the initial suggestion of having more slots. I wasn’t 100% serious and the idea behind it wasn’t fully developed. When Mike wrote we should discuss some more I knew I had to.
I’ve played these games in excess of 40 years now and have never known a single ARPG/CRPG/etc. to give unlimited number of skills. There has to be a limit somewhere and I think 5 is a good balance here.
More than 40 years?
I guess that’s true, Pacman didn’t have unlimited skills IIRC.
(Just teasing, I am in the “5-skills-is-great-because-it-forces-you-to-make-decisions-on-your-build” camp. And I vote against special movement skill button, some builds are good without and it is an interesting challenge to work around.)
I think my biggest take reading this thread for me personally is that movement skills just need to be more varied, for example I love playing sentinel currently because you actually have quite a few movement options, Lunge offers you defensive utility or aggressive smite/jav procing.
But you also can use jav as a movement skill/buff which feels really nice to use, or shield rush for moving very fast.
All of them feel interesting and you have ample choice to move around. Heck you can even convert smite to a movement skill if you want!
Meanwhile mage and necro have bland teleports that can proc low cost spammy type moves or provide extremely small amounts of stats that you dont want to rely on anyways.
I dont think adding an extra slot for movement is the correct choice, rather just expanding the design space of movement options for classes would be far more interesting and fun if more demanding from a design consideration.
Definitely would like more movement skills and the refreshes on some of the existing ones. I also don’t advocate for an additional slot (or replacing one) with a movement only skill. I like the game the way it is, but if the devs made a change like that at some point in the future I’d be fine with it.
The necro/lich and sorc/spelblade are missing mastery skills? Both base classes appear to be missing a 5th skill unlocked by passive points which is what I assume you meant.
The more I think about a “movement skill slot” on the bar, the more I see it as a “Warpath slot”.
Or Void Cleave. Those have the “movement” tag.
So I guess no, it does not make sense to have a movement skill slot. The movement skills in Last Epoch are far too rich for this.
the game sure is slow , i feel it needs hotkeys for sure. Fall asleep going through the storyline and it is slow paced and far too easy, movement would help people keep interest no one is playing this game for the main campaign that is for sure. Just get attacked for providing feedback here though then banned from the discord haha, support an indie game and get attacked by community and banned for criticizing it a bit.
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