Why I will quit last Epoch until it gets changed

[KopfloserReiter]

How about adding a reward to the Forgotten Knights Faction, maybe even Rank 10 to get the Chance to get an Harbingers Eye dropped if you interact with it. That way you have an alternate way to farm eyes once you have proven to be able to do the abberoth fight.

I also agree that the game needs some endgame mechanics that are not depending on luck.

To me the game is in a good state, i have been playing it for a while and i can clearly see strong improvements every patch. With a bit of love the Factions will get better over time and hopefully more balanced.

A main questions that the dev team should potentially answer is how much time a player should need to become almost perfect with either faction. Also if it is okay for them, which is assume, that not every build can beat the pinnacle Boss.

[Amplifix]

@BroncoCollider

The issue is not that people who disagree with you don’t understand what you’re saying, it’s that you don’t understand that you aren’t actually describing a problem with the Legendary system. You’re describing a problem with the Bazaar.

Legendaries are the most powerful items in the game. They are not supposed to be easy to get.

It baffles me that this needs to be said.

I love that you’ve just said this. I’m COF. Clearly I’m talking to someone that hasn’t gone through the game far enough as you’ve stated yourself.

That’s fine, but don’t then come and give final judgement on things you don’t know anything about.

[Verminrodent]

Well the corroption itself is not per se the issue as much. But when doing a harbinger after the boss specifically those get really hard on 800 plus corruption. Some builds have so much damage that they can shred through them, but i was mostly tanky. The fights take long and 1 mistake during those long fights could be try over (usually the Harbinger has like 1 ability that you should for sure dodge on higher corruption). The improved legendary gear helps so much. After i managed to slam my items with 3 stats i instantly went ripping through again. I quit at 800, but for sure could go higher if i continued. There is also the thing of when becomes clear speed to slow. I was still finding out the sweetspot for corruption farming, but the fact i ran out of eyes to do abberoth demotivated me too much.

[BroncoCollider]

@Amplifix

I’m COF.

Then I don’t know why you’re popping off about how you can’t buy the best items in the game from the Bazaar. You know, the subject of the entire three paragraphs that I quoted and replied to. Did you possibly get confused and think I was replying to this:

@Amplifix

You think spending 100+hrs and slamming 25+ LP2 items with an end result of NO improvements is enough? That happened to me, your “everything is fine” comment makes no sense. It’s causing people to STOP playing.

Because I wasn’t. But here, I’ll throw you a bone.

Yes, I absolutely think 25 allegedly failed LP2 slams is fine, because that’s nothing. I’ve had more 3LP slams go badly than that.

They’re the best items in the game. They’re not supposed to be easy to get. It baffles me that this needs to be said.

@Amplifix

Clearly I’m talking to someone that hasn’t gone through the game far enough as you’ve stated yourself.

That’s fine, but don’t then come and give final judgement on things you don’t know anything about.

Sweetheart, you’ve been here 3 days and appear to have just started playing this Cycle. I’m sure it’s very comforting to think that you’re too much gooder a player for me to understand problems that only the leetest of gamers can identify, and I’m not usually one to play childish pedigree games, but trying to flex your experience in this game against mine is like an empty soda bottle picking a fight with my grandfather’s rifle collection.

[Verminrodent]

No you cannot. Have you read my post. The end game items do not exist. There is a cap of how much something can cost. The crafting materials already cost the max amount. No on e is selling legendary items with good stats, no one is trying to craft them, because the materials are just as expensive as the end results. So everyone just sells the material, leaving the gamble to the buyer.

[BroncoCollider]

@Verminrodent

Before Harbingers and Abberoth where introduced, i have understood that the LP gear was not really needed.

And it still isn’t.

There’s a very definite reason you think that, though, and I think we both know what it is.

[Verminrodent]

Says mister i never did them myself…

[Kulze]

@BroncoCollider

It’s such a shame they never added the ability to buy items from other players to Last Epoch through some kind of auction house like system. They really missed an opportunity there.

People don’t put crafted items which are finished into the auction.
So you can’t obtain them.

Doesn’t matter for what reason it happens, the outcome for him as the player is the same.

Which is a viable argument to make.

@Amplifix

To get finished items, it’s MANDATORY to gamble in the pleasure that is temporal sanctum! You can’t buy them off of the auction house in LE.

Exactly!

The point!

‘But people can put it into the market!’
Yeah, they don’t.

So any other argument going beyond that is useless.
If it’s not there you can’t acquire it anywhere else then using those mechanics yourself.
If those mechanics are detrimental to your enjoyment you stop hence.

End of the topic.

Why the heck is it even such a discussion for such a simple situation?

@DJSamhein

it’s just so ridiculously high that it’s irrelevant.

Yes, but in LE it’s not which leads to the current problems related to the market.

@DJSamhein

there was a gold exploit and prices skyrocketed.

And even without that I’ll argue that still nobody will put up finished crafted items onto the market at any sort of reliable rate where you won’t need to personally interact with those mechanics instead.

@DJSamhein

but there is no effective difference in PoE where a very meta double corrupt can cost hundreds of divines and be snatched as soon as it’s sold.

There is a massive difference.
Have you ever played PoE long-term? Experienced the differences between their systems, progression and itemization as the player in this situation experiences it?

It’s not even comparable.

I can buy top-tier bases and re-do double-corruptions there at least once daily, some offering great outcomes even. In Last Epoch currently I’ll need a week to acquire such an item since they’re neither available nor in a price-range which allows to do so. And the prices also can’t fall since there is no resource sink available.

It’s a completely different situation.

@DJSamhein

Both in LE and in PoE you have the option to either buy the bases

You have in PoE
In LE there are none listed on MG

Hence you don’t have this option more often then not.

@Verminrodent

i have understood that the LP gear was not really needed.

Yeah, but besides crafting good bases with good exalted modifiers there’s no other chase available in the game.
You can’t gradually work yourself up, you can only hope for the lucky strike.

Which makes the feeling quite different for the player.

Even taking Abberoth out of the equation completely and returning to the status before.

@BroncoCollider

Legendaries are the most powerful items in the game. They are not supposed to be easy to get.

We are not talking about that you fail to understand the topic.

It baffles me that this needs to be said.

Because yeah, while he has not understood the root cause of the issue there is a root cause and hence there is an issue, as you yourself even admitted.
And if there’s an issue it needs to be tackled.

@Llama8

Yes. Last time I came to I was in a hospital with a broken collar bone.

Was it because of the concussion?

@Llama8

LP gear was probably needed for that kind of high corruption pushing.

Well, 1 LP items for Aberroth can be expected I would say, which makes the 25% slam still something which can turn frustrating.
So I can understand the position at least. Couldn’t in 1.0.

Aberroth has a high skill limit or to alleviate that you need better equipment. Which is what most people hence need, the better equipment. So it becomes necessary.

@BroncoCollider

Then I don’t know why you’re popping off about how you can’t buy the best items in the game from the Bazaar.

Because some people have the ability to put themselves into a position of someone else even if they’re not in that position.

[Darthelmet]

Yeah the Aberroth tries being limited is absurdly bad design. It’s a boss. You’re meant to try to practice against it to eventually kill it. Limiting the player to a handful of tries before having to go grind boring, unrelated content is so ass backwards and demoralizing. It also just pushes people even more towards builds that can just ignore mechanics and cheese it since the game doesn’t really allow or reward you for putting in the attempts.

@DJSamhein

You mean like in PoE you get unlimited tries to kill Sirus or Maven for the first time?

PoE is a bad game for exactly this kind of design philosophy where everything is just a grindy pain in the ass to force you into trading. I came to LE exactly because it fixed a lot of what made PoE suck.

[Kulze]

Limited tries are fine, that’s no issue by itself.

The problem comes when people can’t use their access in some way.
Skill too low to kill him and the access becomes worthless.
Gear too low, same issue.

So the solution it to allow trade of access resources, a player can then at least gear up by giving someone else this chance who can handle it.

Which is why unlike what you say PoE has a good design choice there. You can farm it up, decide ‘I can’t handle it’ and still get rewarded for it. The person running it then gets rewarded more as they want to get some profit out of it. Good system.

And if you need more tries you can also buy chances there to keep on tackling the boss until you manage it. Which allows you to do so as they’re not too expensive to acquire.

[Heavy]

Yes, but that is not a flaw of the legendary system, but a MG specific flaw, which will very likely be fixed. Inflation due to bugs/exploits definitely didn’t help there as well. But I am sure EHG will get this economy in a more stable state over time.

Your post overall is just very doom & gloom, while it does have very valid points it is mainly focusing one one aspect of the game (trading), which many people don’t even care about nor even experiencing, because they choose CoF.

Also the suggestion of giving unlimited tries to the pinnacle boss is outrageous. You already have 10 consecutive tries minimum when you unlock Aberroth, potetnially even more if you did a couple more Harbingers in between the Quest Chain Kills.

There are many points you brought up that I simply don’t care about nor disagree, but some I disagree with a lot.

[Darthelmet]

@Kulze

So the solution it to allow trade of access resources, a player can then at least gear up by giving someone else this chance who can handle it.

Which is why unlike what you say PoE has a good design choice there. You can farm it up, decide ‘I can’t handle it’ and still get rewarded for it. The person running it then gets rewarded more as they want to get some profit out of it. Good system.

Doing the boss is fun. It’s supposed to be something you want to do. If trading it away is the correct answer (as it often is in a game like PoE), the correct choice becomes the unfun choice. Plus by connecting it to trading, it subjects it to the need to balance it’s availability for the sake of the economy. Thus making it only reasonable to do at all by trading for it. It’s an ass system that nobody should seek to copy.

[BroncoCollider]

@Kulze

We are not talking about that you fail to understand the topic.

Yes you are

It doesn’t matter how many words you use to say it. The complaint is that it’s too hard to get Legendaries with stats you want. That complaint isn’t valid.

@Kulze

People don’t put crafted items which are finished into the auction.
So you can’t obtain them.

They don’t, huh? That’s crazy. I must have imagined opening up LE right now and seeing:

• 137 pages of Legendary 2H swords
• 111 pages of Legendary 2H spears
• 87 pages of Legendary 2H axes
• 347 pages of Legendary relics
• 232 pages of Legendary amulets
• 293 pages of Legendary rings

And other measurements as well!

[Edit: inb4 goalposts get moved]

@Kulze

Which is a viable argument to make.

As a problem with the Bazaar. Not as a problem with Legendaries or how hard it is to acquire them.

[Heavy]

@Kulze

So the solution it to allow trade of access resources, a player can then at least gear up by giving someone else this chance who can handle it.

HARD disagree, this is one of the things I absolutely hate about PoE. Access to a boss being an item and giving it economic value disincentivizes people to actually try out the boss.

This type of content should be incentivised to do yourself in whatever position you are skill or gear wise. When you can’t beat the boss yet, you have a clear goal to work towards, there are more than enough ways to get progress (lvl up, gear up etc) through other means and then at a later stage return to the boss.

Giving away access to the boss for economic value will make it so, that certain types of players and people will never do the boss, because it simply doesn’t make sense for them.
Even if they would like to do it, but the risk of failing they entry is too big and thus disincentivizing even trying.

[Verminrodent]

Dude, every nemisis gives a legendary. They are for sale, but not with the slammed stats that people need. I need my helmet to have t7 health, t5 strength and t5 vitality specifically. Those types of specifically slammed items are not for sale, because they are worth more than the cap.

[Mala13]

MG is already infested with RMT, bots and had some duping problems. The prices were soon insanely bullshit. If you can’t farm out currency for mid level gear in a 2-8 hours, I think it’s already fucked. It’s impossible to farm gold in-game for even tens of millions in prices.

Bosses bosses being gated is a trend I hate in new ARPGs. This aspect of Diablo 2 was the best. Just rush to a boss, kill it, reset. Let people play the content they want without consuming 99% of their time farming materials and keys to do anything. Some farming is allright, but when I can kill a boss, why am I prevented farming it?

[BroncoCollider]

@Heavy

Giving away access to the boss for economic value will make it so, that certain types of players and people will never do the boss, because it simply doesn’t make sense for them.

I think you might be forgetting that one of the reasons it doesn’t make sense for people to do POE’s big bosses with keys is not the difficulty but the fact that most of the time the rewards are garbage, and the players who are getting value out of doing them are juicing and/or playing a numbers game. It makes far more sense for some people to sell the maguffins for a very clear return than to roll the dice and probably get trash, and IMO it’s a good thing that they have that option.

[Mala13]

@Kulze

So the solution it to allow trade of access resources, a player can then at least gear up by giving someone else this chance who can handle it.

This just boosts the RMT like in D4. It’s infested by these cheaters. They can permanently farm bosses while people hard grind keys.

Bosses should not be gated IMO, preiod.

[BroncoCollider]

@BroncoCollider

[Edit: inb4 goalposts get moved]

TFS:I can see the future!!

[Kulze]

@Darthelmet

It’s supposed to be something you want to do.

It’s also supposed to be a risky endeavor, which aligns with the limited tries.
Much like dungeons do.

Some enjoy this type of content and others don’t enjoy those aspects.

It’s actually raaaaather evenly split there and you get complaints with ‘nothing is hard in this game’ when such aspects are removed.

@Darthelmet

the correct choice becomes the unfun choice

Fun can come from overcoming challenge. Thrill, stress, hence leading to dopamine release and hence a ‘fun’ experience.

Without that aspect this release is significantly hampered, making it less engaging to actually strive for.

Hence why despite your chance I’ll actively say ‘Yes, companies should copy such systems… in moderation’.

@BroncoCollider

The complaint is that it’s too hard to get Legendaries with stats you want.

That’s why I said you don’t understand the actual topic.

The problem for OP is that progression has halted.
The only way to progress is through lucky slams in the temporal Sanctum.
He is MG and can’t access the results as nobody offers them.
An alternative way would be progress through worn exalted items but their drop-rate is lower then uniques.
This leads to defaulting to saying ‘Legendaries are the problem’ which they are not.

It’s a problem of progression rate and how it adjusts towards end-game, or rather how quickly it does.

@BroncoCollider

They don’t, huh?

How many of them are slammed items versus how many are Nemesis outcomes?
It’s not 1.0 anymore, we got Nemesis and 1.1, baseline changed.
Also how many of them have a T7 affix on them? And how many one which is actually useful for a relevant build? After putting T7 in you already reduce it to probably 2-3 pages and with the relevant ones you maaaaybe got 1 in the end, if you’re really lucky.

@BroncoCollider

As a problem with the Bazaar. Not as a problem with Legendaries or how hard it is to acquire them.

Exactly, so divert it over instead of dismissmal.

@Heavy

Access to a boss being an item and giving it economic value disincentivizes people to actually try out the boss.

Fair, definitely.

Now you got 2 arguments standing against each other. What’s worse?
Having access and no means to actually reliably try and succeed?
Or removing incentive to personally try the boss by raising the inhibitions for the attempt?

I lean to the second a bit.

@Heavy

This type of content should be incentivised to do yourself

I’m for informed choices, player agency. If a person can’t make informed choices by themselves this actively teaches them even.
So some never try… others learn to tackle things which they never thought they could, and some don’t want to bother with it getting something in return nonetheless.

@Mala13

This just boosts the RMT like in D4

Nope, no correlation.

Giving away access to bosses for people which have easy means to kill them is by no way, shape or form related to RMT. RMT is enabled through other means and those need to be handled.

I’ll agree that no gating at all but instead unlocking access is something which I also prefer.