Patch notes for 1.2 state that Endurance Threshold will only appear on belts now. So how do we scale endurance threshold or is that no longer an option? If the affix on the belt is the same value, then the removal of threshold on gloves, rings, relic, and helm represent a potential loss of 750 to 1000 threshold if you optimize for T7 on those items.
I’d like to hear the reasoning for this change in particular. I have always gravitated towards endurance threshold to increase my survivability in the end game as I have never been a particular fan of ward or just going pure health.
on lich sure it makes sense to go threshold stacking.
But take for example a character who has 2k life vs 4k life, baseline the 2k life guy has 400 treshold, and the 4k guy 800, 1000 threshold puts the 2klife guy at1400. that means he takes 600 damage at full, and 1400 at 40%(60% endurance) that means the 2k life guy can take 4100 in a singular hit(600 + 1400/0.4 = 4100) the 4k life guy takes 3200 damage at face value, then 800 at 40%,(3200 + 800/0.4 = 5200
Tldr, in pretty much every case, replacing those affixes with added health provided a better bang for your buck. Especially because they scale with %health which you want to be building as well.
Basically if a t7 endurance treshold gives you 200 endurance threshold, and the t7 flat health gives you 180 health, the 180 health translates to 180 health, and 36 threshold anyways.
I’m copy-pasta my answer to you in the Patch notes thread :
I don’t see it as a nerf or a loss.
Health is getting buffed all around. More HP per level (from 8 to 10; so +200 at lvl 100), HP affixes will be juicier, idols will give HP in a singular affix instead of 2, many passive changes regarding HP, etc.
Currently, endurance mechanic needs a lot of investment in affixes to be viable. It’s useless to have endurance without endurance threshold, and vice-versa.
In 1.2, you’ll still have a decent threshold with the higher HP pools without having to sacrifice so many important slots on your gear. It will still be possible to bump the threshold with belt and passives from classes that are thematically ‘tanks’.
Overall, I think the design choice is to have less mechanics that depends on multiple affixes to minimally work. They added a Ward + Ward retention affix, a Health + Regen, etc.
I feel like they are spring cleaning the affix pools, making room for eventually new stuff. That’s really exciting to me and I love the changes!
The reasoning was to try and simplify things and not have it compete. With that said some Uniques, sets (The Last Bear 2 pc set is +2 endurance threshold per Str) and now passives will be able to accomplish this. Paladin has a lot of endurance threshhold options. (which I will be stacking)
From a Tanking standpoint sure Health is great vs 1 shots. However more mitigation is better with sustain and preventing spike damage. You are able to consistenly make better decisions and use defensives. You are less of a healing sponge where you have to replenish a large portion of your health that doesn’t have good mitigation.
It’s better to not have over 50% of your HP Yoyoing around until you hit endurance and then you mitigation kicks in most scenarios. Then it might be too late. Maybe you don’t use that defensive, maybe your first defensive gets triggered then the next hit kills you. Maybe you panic pot.
So it comes down to gameplay and build and not taking spike damage is always better. It allows you to make better decisions and react better. Playing pure health is risky and for people that like anxiety. Overall pure HP looks good on paper but in practice it just isn’t.
I’m also a bit disappointed to see the affix go, but I can accept the reasoning.
There’s several reasons I like it instead of just health, but to list the two big ones: making health threshold bonuses safer and more powerful feels very clever, and favouring endurance threshold makes sources of health recovery more effective.
But I think they EHG are right when they say that
And endurance threshold showed up on a lot of different items for all classes, so a lot of players had the experience of finding it, doing the math, finding out they did the math wrong, and then finding out it’s worse for them. Even though there are good niche applications of the stat, it probably isn’t worth having a lot of players stumble into that trap and ultimately come away disappointed.
I’m hoping we see further support for endurance & endurance threshold in the future, but maybe it can’t work as a broadly available stat.
TBH I would’ve never introduced endurance as an affix to begin with. This is something that could’ve been class defining and something extra for skills that go into melee. I always took HP over endurance because it was easier and with all the multiplieres on %HP I had I got a lot out of it. Most of the time in H&S games HP bars are either full or empty anyway, and the time inbetween this states are split seconds ^^. Endurance isn’t doing the trick for me.
By “pretty easy”, do you mean like slapping stats on gear ?
Yeah, that’s easy to cap endurance. You click a button in the forge tab and hoppa! You got it…!
2 affixes is already a decent opportunity cost.
But T5 is 11% to 15%. So two T5 is up to a max of 30% (which doesnt cover the 40% gap to cap your endurance). So you need at least one T6 to cover endurance and we are not yet talking about any threshold.
In your example, I guess you’re talking about the maxed Empowered blessing from Spirits of Fire, for the 30% endurance ? So you’re using an empowered blessing that could give you +70% dodge rating or 320 armour, for example ? Or some shred that is quite build-enabling. Or a complete 75% fire res that free you to get it anywhere else.
The opportunity cost is still there. You’re using affix slots that could be used for something else. For endurance itself, 2 slots is not much, but if we include Endurance Threshold, you need more.
With the 3-4-5-6 affixes (or with the Empowered blessing wasted here) that you spend for End+Thresh, what could you get if you were another build or class ? Quite a lot.
Well, Pally has 2 passives (Defiance’s threshold bonus & Prayer Aegis +5 per point & +7 per 2 Attunement), everything else is available to all masteries (I’m mainly thinking of SoH’s Iron Symbols node of +15 per point per Symbol). I personally wouldn’t call 2 passives “a lot of options”.
Yeah, but they could just have combined the two affixes into one.
Thanks for all of your replies everyone, it was very insightful and makes a lot of sense. I did not see the explanation in the balance and itemization section so thanks for bringing that to my attention as well.
I think we are better off and this is coming as someone who is an endurance stacker. It will be possible to have near 100% of my HP covered by endurance in Season 2. All while someone playing the game for the first time isn’t confused on do I choose HP or threshold.
There are Uniques that still have hefty endurance threshold on other slots, As I mentioned there is a 2pc set that can reward a hefty amount of threshold. Then there is the new pally tech by getting it with resist and attunement.
Holy aura provide resist so more endurance threshold, symbols provides threshold as well and then there is another passive that increases the effect of both holy aura and symbols.
The average player will learn the game and be less confused now while the seasoned veteran sees opportunity to stack endurance threshold to the moon (by stacking stuff they already would have). Overall after theorycrafting and looking at gear we are in a better spot. (Some classes passive though should get some love.)
I think people saw the removal of endurance threshold then didn’t look at all the new options of getting it back via new crafting options and gear.
Druid has really strong support for ET with its ability to reach 40% of health gained as endurance threshold (Hideskin passive+Ancestral Crown). I am easily pushing 2K ET currently with Wall of Nothing and this will probably go higher in 1.2.
There’s also a neat build using Runemaster’s ET based on maximum Mana by Bigdaddy using Brand of Deception.
That does look interesting, though I’m curious why he didn’t go with any points in Shattershock by, say, removing 1 point from Surging Influence, 1 from Arcing Power & 1 from Storm Razor to be able to get to Shattershock for a nice 2x 12% more modifier (both multiplicative so 25.44% more for just 1 point).
True Dat, the new weaker ailments not overwriting could be a solid QoL buff to the build but Idk if it is for all ailments or only Doom, Timerot and Abyssal Decay as specified in the post. I had asked on discord devchat but didn’t get a response yet (Spreading Flames Aergon’s Greater Fireball may finally be viable).
Let me know if you get a response, I love low/one stack ailments, and there is always some hit you do that makes your shitty ailment just worse because now you have to wait for it to time out to apply your new stack.
