Hmm, why is it that we lose our invested skill point and must gain it back again through experience on Skills, yet not our character’s class passive skill tree?
Should we get bumped down to 73 again after respecing 1 point in our passive tree at lvl 74?
Why the disconnect on these two philosophies?
Surely our choices must carry weight, we can’t be respecing all willy-nilly in our passive tree!
Or is it, only gold carries weight and as long as we have enough of it we can remake ourselves like new, over and again?
Personally I think the respec costs for the passive tree are too little to have any impact. And I agree with reverting a skill to level 1 when you de-specialize in it. That makes sense, otherwise you’d get every skill to 20 and be done. But once it’s specialized, I think you should retain those points, as you respec point by point. It is called “Skill Re-spec”, after all, right? To re-specialize would imply you’re reallocating resources to a new location, not losing resources.
Agree 100% op. Its a large reason i’ve stopped playing, the skills are not fun to level over and over and the fact we can only level 6 is just really limited…
Its early morning in UK so we can have a few hours before @Llama8 gives me the gears again … its a joke chill out
I also started a thread on this topic a few days ago and got similar responses. Whenever someone mentions D3 it seems everyone starts frothing at the mouth and there follows a slew of negative feedback. It strike me that a lot of people haven’t played D3 recently and don’t know the difference between a) the D3 skill / passive systems and b) the armory system. The ARE NOT the same thing.
Nobody is asking for the D3 skill / passive system and most think the LE system is about right. What @kostyash and i are asking for is the Armory system which is a VERY good efficient way of having multiple build available after you have spent the time to grind out those builds.
I cannot honestly understand why so many people cannot see how cumbersome it will be when the game goes live with multiplayer. People will want 1) solo farming build 2) solo pushing build 3) group support build 4) group speed build or group dps build etc and the current setup makes it impossible to do other than having multiple characters levelled which is a really dumb way to do things when you have such a simple easy alternative like the D3 Armory system.
So just to re-iterate in case the word D3 has made everyone bash their keyboards at the mention of that heretic word … this is not about the D3 skill / passive system (the LE system for this is perfectly fine) … it is about being able to alternate a single char between builds easily AFTER WE HAVE SPENT THE TIME / EFFORT GRINDING THE DIFFERENT BUILDS OUT
Despite being an accountant, I do have a sense of humour (it’s just a soul I’m lacking). Though you only posted this a few mins before I woke up. For maximum no-Llama time, try posting around 11pm UK time.
I’ve not actually used the D3 armoury after it was introduced, though I have played the game after it was introduced.
The problem with a build-saving mechanic in LE is with LE’s skill system, as I think I said above, I don’t think it’s a bad idea if it worked like a template & placed your points for you as you levelled. But unless they changed the skill respec penalty, it wouldn’t work to change the skill point allocations.
Yeah, it’s about not wanting to have to grind the skill points back again after you’ve respeced them. Now to be fair, Mike did say that the system might change:
I’m curious as to what happened to the “actual respec item drops” Mike mentions here last year:
This is probably the most expansive post of his on the subject:
That’s not my point. I respect your decision as well as your opinion.
But there is no need to take revenge on us because theres some mechanics in this game that stop you from playing. It does not add any quality to your post if you just repead that one message all over the forum.
It seems you got frustrated and are searching for allies to bash on the topics that cause your frustration.
No revenge i only came back to answer a few questions, i am not here to bash the game, i do feel its far to much like poe and punishing but if thats the direction this is going it is on me for not checking better before i bought it… I think the game is a very good game currently, yes a few things rub me the wrong way but thats on me not the devs and when i found out about the death penalties coming that was it for me after the skill resets design…
Well this got longer than i wanted and i understand others enjoy punishing content look at the dark souls genre…
That all said i hope this game does well but if they aim at the hardcore community they only get hardcore customers, that is a double edged sword.
Personally I think its too early to abandon LE for its current state of skill respec.
It can defenitely not be the goal to drive people off, that don’t agree with design decissions or current gameplay mechanics. Llama already linked some statements that show the devs are open to changes - when they have a clue how they may look like.
So instead of leaving, why not stay and help to find that way of compromise.
I don’t like the death penalty either. I discussed on that topic and now I am waiting what EHG makes out of it. Is it in my favour? Fine. Is it not? I’ll go on discussing. Actually there is no death penalty beside arena or monolith reset. So there’s no reason for me to leave right now. And even if they implement one, I’ll check out myself if it may become a reason for me to quit.
I feel i’m in a minority at least on these forums so asking for changes i’m usually shouted down so to speak and the game seems not aimed at the casual crowd so i wasn’t sure the devs would even consider my thoughts tbh.
I do hope the game comes out amazing in the future and leaving now just means i’ll be taking a break as i’ve paid for the game anyway. I’ll pop back when my fav class female rogue arrives as thats very much why i bought this game on a whim.
I do hope the death penalties don’t ruin the freedom of this game though, i can deal with the skill resets not crazy death punishments.
either way enjoy the game i might see you in the future.
I enjoy the healthy debate so will definitely keep responses in UK awake time
Implementing a “D3 Armory” type system would involve
1- Saving an “image” of your current skill choices, passive choices, idol choices, gear choices
2- when you choose to go back to a previously saved image it then
a) swaps all current gear with previously saved gear stored now in inventory (and leave slot blank if that specific gear piece is not in inventory anymore)
b) does same swap for idols
c) sets all 5 skills to the previously saved setting ---- point to note is that if you saved immediately after respeccing all 5 skills (ie they are saved on 1/20 for all 5 then skills are reset to those 1/20 positions ----- if you subsequently re-save once fully levelled then reset will be to their saved position say at 20/20
d) does same for passive skill trees
And finally i would be personally happy with changing the skill respec penalty as i am unconcerned on whether it takes me 30min or 3 hrs to respec a char. What deters me from playing different builds in this game at moment is the fact that i loose all that investment if i change to another setup.
Yeah, it’s #c that wouldn’t work given the current state of respecing. That is kinda how I envisaged it to work & when you select a build to load it would give you a screen that states how much the respec would cost. It would work fine if respeccing skills cost some form of currency, it would tell you how much the respec would cost for passives (xxx gold) & skills (yyy currency).
Another potential issue with #c is that if you saved a “blank” build with all your skills lvl’d to 20 & then respeced would it enable you to only have to pay the respec cost once (or twice)?
i don’t think that is an issue as it is only saving the 5 skills you have chosen for your current build. This is then no different then to changing gear / idols which we can do currently anyway.
I will be putting my Engineering brain to thinking of potential solutions as i really think this will be a BIG problem come multiplayer online. If you assume that each of the 15 mastery will require 1) Solo speed farm build 2) Solo pushing build 3) Group support build 4) Group DPS build then that is potentially 60 separate character which need to fully complete campaign to get all idol / passive slots. And this isn’t counting having multiple solo builds eg Cpt America, Whirlwind, Turbo Vengeance etc for Paladin.
The one thing you cant have when online with communities / clans is “can’t join team now as it will take me 30-45min to respec my Cpt America into Support Paladin”.
I see where you’re coming from, but the current implementation for respecing would need to change for that to work as I mentioned before.
Lets say you wanted to respec your shield throw paladin to a support paladin to group up with some friends to run through some content. The gear (inc idols) & passives wouldn’t need any changes to fit into your suggestion, all it would be doing is automating swapping out gear & popping over to the passive respec vendor & if it presented you with the gold cost of respeccing your passives before doing it, that’d be fine. The issue is, as you say (“can’t join team now as it will take me 30-45min to respec my Cpt America into Support Paladin”) with skill respecs, in order for this to work, you’d need to have:
skill respecs require a currency in order to keep the skill point (spending the currency then changes your skill from 20 skill points allocated to x skill points allocated & (20-x) skill points unallocated), the currency would also need to be farmable (ie, not 1 respec after completing quest X)
skills keep their max xp when you unspecialise them (so that you could at some point level up your skills for your shield throw build & any different skills for your support paladin then spend the currency to respec between them)
I’m not sure what I feel about that. I kinda like it, but it’s different to what we have at the moment (which I’m ok with & change is bad).
Given we have no clue what multiplayer is going to be like yet, I see a few scenarios (probably more but my brain hasn’t had enough caffeine yet.)
Traditional Meta group style play, like D3 etc and the dreaded MMO. Then yes, an Armory with the current skill advancement doesn’t really work. If that is the style they go for then my guess is they’ll have ideas for how to make switching in and out a little more palatable for those who like this style.
Group dynamics in the form of old RPGS like Baldur’s Gate, etc. Here your characters are necessarily setup as some sort of meta build, well they do have ideal ways to make them, but it’s not nearly as important as the meta style in #1. If this is the method they go for then just like Baldur’s Gate in order to adjust you’d have to rebuild a completely different character (by characters here I mean the NPCs not the main characters.)
something in between.
RANT ON/FEEL FREE TO SKIP
honestly, no clue. I know I played so many hours on D3 probably upwards of 4000. I almost never played multi. I don’t like it. I don’t like the idea of a ‘meta’ anything to be perfectly honest. As an old school rpg (tabletop) player I just read an article two days ago from a big gaming magazine about the meta breakdown of Dungeons and Dragons characters. In other words the ‘role’ is dead in rpg. This is still an aRpg. I don’t like the idea that the mentality today is role=meta. And for what it’s worth, I am absolutely fine with them HAVING multiplayer because I know lots of people do like that. But I hope they don’t build their game AROUND multiplayer to much (i.e. armory skill swapping etc.) because it’s not my cup of tea. (huge minority opinion I know.)
RANT OFF
Would be nice if someone like @Sarno could comment on the current thinking of devs regarding multiple builds for one mastery, especially when multiplayer is live. So the most obvious example here would be a Group Support Paladin and a Solo Pushing build. Do they
Intend players to have separate characters for each different build
Intend for us to spend 30-45min reskilling to another build each time we want to switch
Have another system / design feature in mind which is coming later
On an not-particularly-related note, would it be possible to get an @Devs or @EHG for the forum which would flag a post to the devs in general rather than specific ones, kinda like reporting a post does.
… its a joke chill out
