hey guys
got a question
when is penetration calculated ?
example
bleed 53dmg/s with 100% dmg over time increase = 106dmg/s
now getting 100% physical pen
is it
53dmg/s + 100% increase + 100% pen = 3 x 53dmg/s = 159dmg/s
or
53dmg/s # 100% increase = 106dmg/s + 100% pen = 212dmg/s
Penetration reduces resistances, so itâs a bit more complicated than that but itâs essentially a more multiplier applied after all damage modifiers.
In your example 53 base damage with 100% increase is 106 damage. If the mob has 0 resistance then 100% penetration makes it 212 damage. If the mob has letâs say 20% resistance then it would take 85 damage without penetration (106 * (1 - 0.2)) and 191 damage with 100% penetration (106 * (1 - 0.2 + 1))
thanks 
for me was important to know if it is calculated after dmg increases because it makes pen much more valuable
Most of the cases pen on amulet is more valuable than anything else. If you have letâs say 500% increased damage then an additional 100% increased damage is roughly the same as 17% pen.
Itâs especially true for damage over time because armor shred doesnât work against DoTs and DoTs cannot crit, so pen is the most effective multiplier for DoTs.
Due to the commutation principle, the order doesnât matter. 10% more is always 10% more regardless of where that modifier is applied in the process.
you didnât read his example and you assume he did the calculation correctly based upon you knowing the pen is multiplicative to total damage.
i.e. you know that total damage is kind of like;
totalDamage = [(base + baseIncrease) + (base + baseIncrease)*increasedPercentage] * damageMulti * pen
but he was writing
totalDamage = base + base X increasedPercentage + base X pen (removed the * because it does weird formatting)
Why am I writing this here? Because I want to know if Iâm wrong.
Ignoring shred & the resist cap 'cause itâll make the formula unnecessarily complex for forum textâŚ
Total damage = (base + (flat added damage x added damage effectiveness)) x (total % increased) x (more 1) x (more 2) x (more 3, etc)) x (1 - (targetâs resistances - penetration))
If the target has 0% resist & the aggressor has 100% penetration, then that last term turns into (1 - (0 - 1)) = 2, so youâd double the damage compared to if both were 0. If the target had 25% resist & the penetration was still 100%, the last term would be (1 - (0.25 - 1) = 1.75 for a 75% more multiplier compared to if the resists & penetration were both 0.
[(base + baseIncrease) + (base + baseIncrease)*increasedPercentage]
Is wrong since the % increased affects the base as well as any flat added damage & the flat added damage is affected by the added damage effectiveness while the base damage isnât. Unless thatâs what you meant but didnât write it well (BIDMAS, just in case).
guilty!
shred doesnât really make it that much worse, I typically put that last one as x (Resistances, modified by Shred and Penetration)
Basically fwiw (to the OP, I know you know) the difference between Shred and Pen is this:
Shred - Applies Before resistances are capped, so âexcessâ resistance above 75% protects against Shred; if you have 100 resistance and are suffering from 4 stacks of Shred you still count as having 75% resists, same as if you had no stacks of shred. Also, itâs capped at 10 stacks and is -5% per stack, -2% per stack vs bosses. Applied to enemies.
Penetration - Applies After resistances are capped, so having âexcessâ resistance above 75% does nothing. No limits on how much you can have and as far as Iâm aware equally effective vs regular enemies and bosses alike.
Offensively, none of this nuance matters typically; unless they specifically state they have high resist you can assume enemies have 0 resist, take the total shred and add your pen to it, and have a multiplier of (1 + (sum of resistance shred and penetration / 100)) which is applied to your damage. Defensively, thereâs no benefit to having resistances above 75 other than to protect against shred, and it will never be beneficial to have over 125 even if against enemies which apply shred due to the stack cap, unless of course you have some unique armor or effect which is based on uncapped resistance amount.