What is the point of unlocking base skills by putting points into the base passive tree?

General
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This might sound like a silly question, but hear me out.

Every class has 4 skills that unlock by spending points into their base passive tree. For this post I’m going to use Sentinel as my example, since I’m playing one right now and he’s more or less fleshed out at this point as far as skills go.

Sentinel has 4 skills that unlock as you put points into the base Sentinel passive tree, from Rebuke at 5 points to Smite at 20. 20 points is the maximum amount for any skill to unlock, on any class.

The reason I ask this question is this; In what scenario are people not going to spend these points and unlock all of these skills? There isn’t one. You can’t put mastery points into other trees without 20 points in your base passive tree. Every. Single. Character…That ever makes it to a mastery is going to have put 20 points into their base tree, and unlocked all of these skills.

All the mastery tree skill unlocks make sense. It’s a mastery tree, you’ve gone another level and now you’re unlocking special mastery-gated skills.

But the base tree skills? Those can be lumped into “unlocks with character level” and the game will change in exactly ONE single solitary way:

We get space for 4 more skills in the skill window, instead of a line and some text that says “these might as well unlock with character level too, but they dont”.

Maybe it’s there so you don’t save up too many passives for your mastery tree? Nope. You need to spend 20 anyway.

Maybe it’s there simply to be congruent with the other trees since they have stuff that unlocks with passives? That takes away from the mastery tree’s being special. They don’t need to, and shouldn’t be exactly the same anyway. Where’s the base Sentinel passive if that’s the case?

Maybe it made more sense many versions ago for whatever reason, but now its just an oversight? Well, I think most people would prefer 4 more skills instead of some text and a line and a completely vestigial unlock mechanism.

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They unlock sooner or later based on whether you do the sidequests that give passive points.

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Sure, but in the overall scheme of the game this is something that you might miss on your first character, and something that will almost immediately before you choose a mastery in almost all scenarios resolve itself anyway and certainly by the time you’re level 40 or so this reasoning has ceased to matter in any capacity. We’re talking about an entire unlock mechanic in place for “maybe you’ll get this at level 12 instead of level 15” .

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They materialize the fact that your character is learning and improving.
It’s part of the false “RPG” in “ARPG” and gives the feeling that your action brings a result.

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Yes, but there is plenty of that in this game without needing pointless redundancy. Case in point, the “Transfer Crafting Items” button.

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It trains new players that “skills” are learned by “spending passive points in trees”.

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But like 4 inches to the right it says that in words, and I quote “Unlocked by spending points in the Forge Guard passive tree.”

We aren’t that dumb, are we? Like I said in my OP, if it’s there for the sole reason of just being like the mastery trees, it shouldn’t. It’s not like the mastery trees, and the existence of the unlocking skills with guaranteed spent points is simply redundant clutter.

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Having the extra redundancy of making players spend points in the tree to learn how to unlock skills is needed for people that have trouble understanding. So, you personally might not be “that dumb” but some are, and since it doesn’t matter one way or the other, no reason to change anything.

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Yes reason to remove pointless redundancy that is taking up space where 4 more new skills for each class can go.

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I just think you’re confused.

3 classes have 8 skills unlocked by level - Mage, Sentinel, Acolyte.
1 class has 7 - Primalist.
1 class has 6 - Rogue.

4 classes have 4 skills unlocked by those 20 points in the base tree - all but Rogue.
1 class has 3 - Rogue.

I am not even sure where you are getting these 4 mysterious new skills from.

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I think the obvious reason is to not overwhelm new players with all the skills in one go. Having them unlocked sequentially with some time in between allows new player, both new and experienced in ARPG genre, to test out the skills once at a time and look more closely into each skill tree.

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Early Access games tend to exist in an unfinished state. I used the Sentinel for an example because he among a few others had all 4 of his unlockable by points skills in the game already. I am assuming the rest, instead of just having fewer skills than other classes, are simply not in game yet.
I can count. I can also look towards the future and generalize.

The mysterious new skills I’m talking about are basically a suggested use of space better than a line and some text, I am pretty sure I made that clear. I’m sorry to have confused you.

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This is achieved by having them unlock with player level. Dividing these unlocks into two different categories that essentially happen at the same time is more overwhelming, no? It’s not like you get all these skills at once anyway, ever. Choose 4 other levels to unlock the 4 skills that unlock with points and bam, you’ve smoothed over the entire experience and removed pointless redundancies.

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Not a lot would change if these skills unlocked with character level instead of points in the base class tree. The reason why they’re unlocked the way they are is to introduce the mechanic earlier and because it provides an extra reward or motivation for reaching that tier of passives.

I am assuming the rest, instead of just having fewer skills than other classes, are simply not in game yet.

This is correct, the current plan for release is to have 12 skills for each base class and 5 for each mastery.

I think most people would prefer 4 more skills instead of some text and a line

Adding a skill takes a lot of work. The main thing preventing us from adding 20 new skills (4 for each base class), is definitely not the existence of that text and line. In future, when we want base classes to have more than 12 skills, we will simply adjust the skills panel UI to fit them.

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Hah, I know. Thank you for taking the time to reply here. I sort of hate that I’ve wasted your time though, since mostly this whole thread was posted in only a semi-serious way. I know the space isn’t keeping some magical pile of skills from fitting in, I just have an eye for nonsense like this and it’s bothered me for a while. Really you’ve just confirmed that indeed there is no real point to this division other than being a redundant learning tool for early-early game characters and players, despite its proximity to written textual explanations of the exact lesson it’s there to teach, and that’s fine, it’ll just keep bothering me, and that’s fine too.

Thanks for all the hard work you do and despite being a nitpick I love this game to death.

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Yes, people are, and can be, that dumb. We still get questions in perfect English (so they are clearly native speakers, not just someone whose understanding of English is a bit ropey but they carry on anyway) “can you respec your mastery?” Despite the mastery quest telling you it’s a permanent choice.

People are dumb. People don’t read.

And “is ignite damage buffed by %fire damage”.

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Many times I saw a door with a huge sign “Press the button to open” and people trying to push the door, then asking how to open it. People don’t read. Our brain is not conditioned for that.

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Personally, I like that they unlock gradually, it gives you a chance to use the skill to see if you like it, and takes you “gently” through learning the game. Also gives you something to look forward to, the “ooh one more point and I get…” feeling. There is nothing worse than starting a new game and immediately having a bar full of skills you know nothing about.

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In big, bold letters, no less!

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