Maybe, but that’s a you problem, not an us problem.
Just to be clear — by “looks like shit” you mean CURRENT look of LE when someone is playing it really fast, right? Because this is what we all talking about here, and this is what I clearly specified in my message you are answering to.
If you currently play with the WASD mod then yes. If you currently play with mouse & keyboard then it’s utterly neglectable for now, it happens only rarely given there’s a mandatory delay for the mouse movement which in most cases allows the character to not look too ‘choppy’.
With WASD - as people mentioned repeatedly by now - this issue is expedited massively, that means you get it several times in succession, which then causes people to become aware as it becomes grating and commonplace.
We’re arguing in circles here, it always comes back down to ‘if you implement it in the current state then it looks like shit’. Followed by ‘if the respective animations are finished everyone would love to have it implemented’, followed by ‘In the current state of the game it’s not a feasable main priority as other things are vastly more important to at least handle half-way decently before it’s done’
Is there anything new to that or have I missed something?
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You are missing that it happens all the time when your character is moving and you are pressing the skill in other direction. If players only move in the direction of monster they are attacking, it is neglectable, but if some player moves more thoughtfully and acting fast, then it is exactly the same as it would be with wasd. So gameplay of skillful players who is playing with click-to-move currently looks like crap which will make people leave the game if they will see it, according to this argument.
There is nothing new, you just can’t get your hear around it, because it doesn’t fit with the idea of some imagined “crappy wasd look”.
Re-read, you missed that I specifically pointed out why it’s not an issue currently and can be ignored in the current state. You’re just hammering down a point which is directly answered.
For good measure again: The inherent delay in mouse movement causes the situation to appear less grating to the player, the lack of it through WASD makes it so obvious it can’t be ignored by a large chunk of players.
No, you’re not superman with a 0,01 ms mouse movement speed with perfect precision either, hence your argument simply didn’t apply because you have the mandatory movement delay. It’s less grating and not as severe which makes it acceptable commonly with exceptions applying. Those exceptions are not the norm.
If you find a world where everyone has pro-speed reflexes and perception abilities we can talk about it again, but that’s simply not the reality. For 99% of players this simply is not the case, which is an acceptable range. If you’re in a special situation then you also got to wait especially long given that there’s things going on which are non-special and widespread, so obviously those get priority. Wait for you meal and stuff it until it arrives, it won’t happen quicker if you nag about it, it’s in the making and planned already after all.
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Ok, let’s use some numbers if you want. How many attacks per second hero usually can make in lategame? Something around 3? Then, if we combine it with moving, it will be something like 1.5, one attack per maybe 0.7 seconds. Can skillful players make two clicks in different directions in 0.7 second? I think so. Will mandatory delay for the mouse movement prevent it? I don’t think so. What is threshold of that mandatory delay? If it is less than 0.5 seconds, it is not relevant.
Also, you are saying that average player will not do it, but player also doesn’t have to play with wasd if he doesn’t like how it looks, so the problem according to you is that if people for whom wasd is not that important will see how someone else playing it, they will quit the game or not bother to try it. Well, they can see how some fast player play the game and it will want then to quit as well, so it doesn’t really matter how much players are playing fast.
Only one thing as an answer:
Available content has to be up to quality standards.
The notion of ‘don’t use it if it’s bad’ is one of the worst heard arguments ever.
If you can’t do it properly then get your shit together until you do… or get the negative feedback hurting your product.
Imagine buying a music album and one track has everything being off-tune since the musicians weren’t able to be ready to deliver it. Yeah… ‘just don’t listen to that one!’ Bad luck, I bought it though, I expect the respective quality, no… I demand it or I’ll rip that product apart left right and center for good reasons.
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So you do agree that gameplay of skillful player currently looks like shit after all?
Read above, there’s the answer. I’ll now stop answering to you since you’ve showcased a repeated lacking of comprehension. All of it is written above, repeatedly. I usually answer to nigh everything… but you’ve even gone beyond my limits, kudos, doesn’t happen often.
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It’s because you are trying to avoid simple facts which you can’t argue about and instead you are going into some details hoping to make everything less clear. Like with that mandatory delay, where you pretended that you answered something and I just don’t understand it. Well, for me it was fun to discuss, otherwise I wouldn’t do it. It’s kind of interesting to see how opponent will try to deny obvious things.
Btw, here is example of that crappy looking LE gameplay which will make people quit the game if they will see it.
Ridiculously miniscule amounts visible of the choppy movements. Not even remotely comparable to current WASD.
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No it wouldnt be the exact same.
Whe. U move with mouse to say the left then the right or even aim to the right ur character turns to face the cursor.
Adding wasd WITHOUT creating new character assets for it. Will have ur character snapping a 180. When u fire off a skill
Example u press A to move left u aim a skill towrds D with the curse ur character doesnt turn to face the cursor it only faces in the direction ur moving.
Now imagi. This with high attack speed cast speed ect. Now add in skills like areil assult smoke bomb ect that have front or backflips as animations for the skills.
It will look like complete ass and even break those skills animations
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Ok, that’s something actually worth answering, since it’s a reasonable thing and I just read it, skimped over your message the first time since I was imagining it ‘the same’ as before. Which it is, but at least with a reasonable bit you’re lacking for understanding which I can clear up.
What I mean with the ‘delay’ is that you have a distance between the cursor when you move towards the left and an enemy to the right. You don’t ‘teleport’ your cursor over, you have to move it. That takes time and also usually people tend to not attack directly backwards with keyboard controls, like in the video you posted the player is traversing in a circle or spiral pattern.
This means you generally won’t ‘snap’ 180 degrees around, the circumstances for that happening are very rare and even then you still have a delay once more if you want to continue moving away.
So it goes the following: Movement → stopping movement or adjusting it sideways → moving mouse → attacking → moving mouse → returning movement.
This seems ‘natural’ for the player. A person can accept easily in their mind that a character turns around, fires off something and then returns to turning back and running onwards. For that a necessary ‘action delay’ is needed. In this case we have the mouse movement to provide said ‘action delay’. There is a pause between the actions.
The solution to solve that is to provive the animations for omnidirectional movement of the character, which LE doesn’t have. There are no sideways animations and there is no backwards animation available, only forward.
This makes it so when you move for example down on the screen with WASD and fire up with a skill your character snaps shortly for the execution around before snapping back. In a speed which is ‘unnatural’, hence the players perceives it as ‘wrong’. Because that necessary delay which our brain makes up to think ‘the character turned around’ doesn’t happen. Respectively often and it becomes jarring to play visually.
Imagine any game where you can have your character follow your mouse, turning with it, you usually see that spinning motion sometimes people do to keep themselves shortly busy for whatever reason? Now imagine it isn’t fluid but instead only has 4 directions and you ‘snap’ between them rather then actually following the mouse. It’s the same feeling happening there, a ‘interruption of continuitiy’ (I’m missing a better term) which feels awkward and unfitting for the brain.
Yes, the current animation isn’t optimal, but it suffices to represent it well enough to ‘sustain being believable’, in comparison the immediate snapping without downtime is ‘not believable’ for the brain.
There’s a few olden games in-between the times where a general solution was found and the times there weren’t any distinct available input schemes created yet, all of those games tend to look ‘awkward’ or ‘disjoined’ with their animations. They look ‘low quality’, probably something we’ll say in 10 years about the animation sets of modern mouse & keyboard input as well when AI becomes advanced enough to create a full animation set solely from a provided model at not much more then a few button presses. But nowadays? We’re not there yet, the effort to create those animations currently is still tens of hours of constant work, with tens of hours of testing and tens of hours of revision afterwards.
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So ur ok with shoehorning players that would prefer wasd into a build/class that they arent a fan of. Or force them to use point and click. To avoid the jank wasd or even not play LE at all.
Why should i have to forgo using wasd if thats my prefered controller scheme into a different build or point and click ect.
Ur being a selfish prick all u care a out is what u want and are ignoring what other players care about
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It reminds me, how a year or two ago everyone here tried to explain me, how hard it will be to implement what is now called “junky wasd”, that even though it looks simple, but it will actually take at least hundreds of hours for developers to implement it. Even some LE dev said that, it was hilarious. I said back then, that after PoE 2 launch, it will suddenly became very easy to implement, and obviously it was — EHG already implemented it in testing branch of the game just to see how it works, apparently it wasn’t that hard after all. Ofc, if devs would be as smart as people here, they would never do it, because for everyone here it’s obvious that wasd will look too junky, but well, devs aren’t as smart as people here.
I love this kind of people lol
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Technically, I’ve argued against WASD because I can’t imagine an implementation that’s not a waste of dev time due to being a worse controller, summed up here by oldschooldiablo;
Or so superior to mouse movement because they did separate aiming from movement (i.e. Chronicon/PoE2) that using a mouse becomes a handicap.
In the first example, the devs spent time adding in WASD but it’s just a worse controller and controller is already not as good as mouse without twin-stick aiming. It’s just a good “sit back and relax” control scheme without being so much worse that you’re handicapping yourself. While in the second example, the ability to move and aim separately instantly makes moving and aiming with just the mouse so inferior that players are making the game harder by using it.
Show me a WASD control scheme that doesn’t waste the devs time or make mouse control obsolete and I’ll gladly defend adding it to any ARPG. until then, I’m of the mindset that the game needs to be designed around it as the primary control scheme (PoE2 or Chronicon) or the game just needs to leave it out.
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Yeah, I see the point. Even though I’ve never played PoE2, D4, nor any PoE clone using WASD, I imagine it can provide unfair advantage to most builds over other controlling methods, to a point it would most likely become the meta and standard way of playing the game.
So I have yet to try playing with WASD for a while before I can form a solid opinion on this, but as of now, I’m looking forward to it, for I am an avid MMO player who really likes WASD controlling scheme.
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I’m also an avid MMO player, but I think what people seem to forget is in an MMO (or really any first/over the shoulder third-person viewpoint), the mouse controls the entire camera and will lock onto a target or aim a reticle while WASD is “walk forward, strafe left, walk backwards, strafe right”
Using ffxiv as an example: if I’m running through a dungeon, I’m holding W or using auto run while holding right click and aiming the camera to adjust my characters movements. Giving me 360 degree movement. In a fight, I can strafe around the target with A and D to avoid AoEs while keeping the enemy centered by again holding right click on my mouse. In an ARPG, I have top down perspective. I can only move in 8 directions and the mouse doesn’t control the camera at all so I can only aim attacks toward the mouse (if the game allows it)
Edit: a way to get this to theoretically work similar to an MMO would be W always walks you towards the mouse while your character aims that direction. Giving you the ability to strafe left and right, walk backward and constantly be aiming at the mouse. In my experience with ARPG’S using wasd w/ mouse-aim W always moves you up on the screen and S down on the screen though. This would still be superior to mouse, but could be better balanced by making backstepping away from the mouse slower than turning around. Forcing you to swing the mouse around while holding W to move like you’d do with holding left-click to run.