That’s not how the controller work in LE
Left stick move and turn your character (you always face the direction you are walking in)
Right stick is the mouse cursor but if you use left stic’'it disappears (so its only for the menus)
What you described is called twin stick. That’s not what we have
Never heard the first one.
The second one holds true depending on the balancing of the specific game, circumstancial.
The third is a viable argument.
If you ignore the ‘OP’ aspect then you’re lacking understanding on how control schemes influence game design, and in a major way too. And if you ignore the animation aspect then you’re alienating the people which either get a headache from jittery movements or simply find them ugly as their mind tends to focus on such things. Mechanically it means absolutely nothing after all.
Not quite.
The left cursor is the movement direction, the right cursor is the targeting direction. These are separate with WASD but are always the same with mouse+keyboard control. If you click so your character walks to the left then it look left. If you click to an enemy to the right your character turns and attacks, if you click left again the character moves.
With WASD you can walk left while attacking the enemy on the right, at the same time. There is no animation for backwards or sideways stuff existing.
Several slower-paced mouse-controlled games hence have animations - and hence delays of the actual attack animation - for turning, making options to kite less feasable. In a fast-paced game like LE that’s just not doable though since a quarter of a second delay feels clunky and unresponsive. Much like the lack of animation cancelling does already.
Basically it’s at least 8 directions of movement for animations, albeit some are generally copied over, like the backwards left/right is just inverted, forward the same.
This is an example what I meant in my previous post. Chad90 is clearly talking about implementation of WASD without remaking animations or anything else, but you are ignoring it and answer like he is thinking that with joystick you can shoot while moving. I think the reason you are ignoring it even though it is quite obvious is because you are trying to combine incompatible things in your head, and as the result, you are forgetting about those things which are incompatible with what you are currently saying, otherwise what you are saying wouldn’t make sense.
Well, given that’s what he said he was assuming:
Also, if you think that characters moving in one direction and facing in a different direction won’t require different animations (ie, a walking-backwards/sideways animation) or always facing in the direction of movement but having skills fire out of a random orifice in the direction yhe player is aiming, isn’t a valid concern, then perhaps you should not work in gaming development or criticise people who don’t want the games they play to look like arse.
Just a thought.
You not having the intellectual capacity to understand things that are important to others but not yourself is not an “us” issue.
It has been made here.
Sure, it gives advantage, I just don’t think it matters much. Like, did D4 had any problems with the balance after they added it? WASD is good not only for range heroes, but for melee too. I don’t think we have enough reasons to expect any serious balance problems.
No, D4 has no issues with balance because their whole game is piss-easy, outside of uber-lilith and the first major boss you find.
Where there’s nothing to screw up you definitely can’t screw it up, you’re right.
If you do the same in PoE, LE or even Torchlight then the games are utterly broken. There’s a reason why PoE 2 was made with WASD primarily in mind, the other input methods are - for a large portion of classes - just inferior, the precision of movement and the reaction time is just that much higher.
LE has a few distinct showcases on how some skills are completely broken or really great depending on input scheme as well.
Ranged Mana Strike is a prime example. As keyboard player? Total and absolute garbage, worthless, useless, non-viable.
As a controller player? Fantastic skill!
The difference? Auto-aim. Keyboard misses hits, controller hits 100% of the time, that’s pure DPS right there.
WASD has the same situations, damage upkeep is substantially higher for many skills.
But then Ranged Mana Strike is even more useless with click-to-move scheme (aiming with click-to-move is harder than with wasd), adding wasd wouldn’t change much in this. It sounds like adding controller changed the balance much more than wasd would, still noone argued that controller shouldn’t be added because of that. What’s the difference between changing balance by adding wasd and by adding controller? Would you argue that controller scheme should be disabled because it is breaking the balance?
You missed the entire point of my argument.
Namely that different control schemes cause different balancing and different ups and down, inside a singular game.
It also generates more work to balance things properly, exponentially so.
As for your direct questions:
The difference is that it affects different skills once more.
As I mentioned, we already have vast changes depending on control scheme. A clear example of how neither controller nor classic mouse+keyboard handle a whole class best is seen on PoE 2. The mercenary. It becomes vastly stronger when you use WASD for it.
So, go ahead and imagine how some of the current builds in LE would undergo a substantial balance change solely by WASD hence, and given the quite bad balancing state how much that would worse the situation.
As for removing controller support… the question itself is fairly dumb, but I’ll nonetheless entertain it: No, solely for the purpose of RSI issues. Nuff said, that upside is worth the downsides, you don’t wanna break your own customers gradually until they can’t interact with your product anymore.
You can list thousands of reasons why it will not work in LE, but the truth is that postponing implementing wasd as long as possible won’t do any good for LE, and all those arguments about balance breaking will not change anything about it. EHG probably understands it, so I won’t be surprise if basic wasd implementation will be in the April patch.
First of all, wrong premise from your side.
I didn’t talk about reasons why not to implement it. I said it’s a detriment to implement it currently. Along the way, absolutely!
It’s low on the priority list though, and for several reasons. Namely balancing and namely animations. Because if the game looks like ass then that hurts the game more then a modern input scheme not being available. Also bad balancing hurts the game more then having it.
Those are superior in priority.
And I would be massively surprised of WASD implementation would come in the next year or 2, likely later in the current state of the game. Your priorization is just all over the place, with a lack of understanding what it means to do it, and how to properly do it.
Sorry, what now? Has WASD not been around for decades?
Not in ARPGs at least, as the norm.
Controller works the exact same way point and click does.
You move and aim with the left joystick
EHG could just slap in wasd without separating aiming from movement. Which since the controller works this way. U would end up with 8 directions to aim in.
Which would be a worse of controller at that point just use a controller.
It wont thats the thing alot of players like u do not understand. Its been explained in detail many times as to why and how that is.
It has been explained that if some heroes will change direction ~3 times more often, it will completely ruin the look of the game. But this explanation just doesn’t make much sense, and repeating it many times will not make it any better.
I am prioritizing it because for me, it completely removes any fun from the combat, so some small potential problems can’t justify it — there is no game at all without wasd (for me). And I am not the only one who can’t enjoy click-to-move combat. And the reason we can’t enjoy it is because it will be much more fun to fight with wasd, people just don’t know it yet.
There are players that can’t play LE because it is gender locked. It’s no different from your situation. Maybe they would be happy with having a blocky character running around that kinda looks like the gender they chose, because that would allow them to play the game.
Would you, someone that doesn’t care at all aobut that, be fine with the game suddenly looking blocky just because someone wanted to rush gender lock in a crappy way just so they could play?
Doing a crappy WASD is worse for the game overall. Yes, you and half a dozen people wouldn’t mind and would be glad to have it in the game. Dozens would think the game looks like crap and leave.
Besides, you already have a script that does what you want. You can literally already use WASD in LE if you don’t mind jankyness. So I don’t understand what your hangup still is.
I think it is ridiculously far away from reality. If some player is currently playing with very high actions-per-minute count, changing direction of the moving significantly more often than average player, then if people will see how he is playing, they will say “omg, what a junky game we are playing!” and immediately leave? 
This is exactly what you are saying.
I wouldn’t compare thing which completely changes feeling from the combat with thing like gender locking which doesn’t affect gameplay at all.
But overall, it is not interesting to discuss anymore — we can’t say anything new, all your two arguments against wasd was said enough times, there is no point to repeat them over and over again.
First of all, that’s a pure personal thing, you’re saying it as if it’s a universal truth. It’s not.
Secondly, what you define as ‘small’ actually relates to the fundamental enjoyment of a vastly bigger amount of people compared to the problem you have with it.
You see, when a company needs to decide what to do then they usually to it with 2 things in mind. The first is if their vision supports it, does it align with their goal? WASD would definitely do so. And the second - the most important - is how many customers it would affect, both on the positive and the negative side. An immediate switch to WASD at the second right now would cause Animations to break - which I already explained can lead to actual physical symptoms of discomfort for a good chunk of people, while also looking ugly as fuck, hence alienating even more - and also the balancing to be messed up - which I already explained that it’s currently a major issue already, a large portion of the playerbase being unhappy with it, so making that worse is the dumbest decision they could make - so it’s not a feasable direction currently.
Yes, and I don’t enjoy extraction shooter because they have a lack of permanence in progress because of their wipes, without a legacy space where everything you have stays. And I’m not the only one.
But it’s been established in the respective genre, it’s been there since basically the conceptions in both genres and many people play it because of it in both genres. Not being ‘the only one’ says basically jack… as the other side also is not ‘the only one’.
And as a reminder, I’m all for WASD implementation… at the proper time.
‘You think you do, but you don’t’… You’re kinda sounding like the Blizzard team there. Should probably re-evaluate your own thought process a bit. Went awful for them, doesn’t do it well for you either.
Then that’s called delusional, because it’s a very natural thought process especially in the current time of gaming when graphical fidelity has been put on a pedestal compared to gameplay.
People left the game because the quest symbol on the friggin minimap was bugged with a white space rather then being displayed properly and here you are arguing that completely breaking the continuity of quality at basically every second in the game during combat.
Yes, and he’s right to say it. Because if it looks crap then people will see that and not leave… they won’t even come to try the game out. ‘Looks like shit!’ is the result, hence given the market is flooded with products that are qualitative overall and ‘don’t look like shit’ is massive nowadays.
In the 90s and the early millenium your argument was good enough, you’re kinda 20 years late to the show with that though.
And nonetheless… for people it is as important as WASD is for you! Graphics for people are really important, and they don’t affect gameplay for shit. And still, if given the option to play ‘shiny ARPG without substance’ aka… D4, or ‘fantastic ARPG non-shiny with massive substance’ aka… D2… the current audience will pick the new game rather then the old, because the graphics are ‘not good enough’ no matter the gameplay, as well as being dated and a bit choppy. But content-wise D2 is still better then D4 nowadays. It’s roughly on the same level as LE actually, though LE is moving past it in terms of content amount and quality gradually.
You got a lot to say for it not being interesting I gotta mention here.
I haven’t seen anyone arguing against WASD… People just don’t want a crappy implemented system that will do more harm than good to the game.
Get over it.