Lol, this is literally what GGG did every few months with PoE 1 and what made it so popular.
Not really, their leagues are supposed to be full-fledged things standing on their own. Also their major changes tend to be relatively fleshed out.
The stage of ‘experimental’ in case of WASD would be a sorta pre-alpha quality implementation. What PoE provides is usually around the quality level of late-beta, sometimes release quality as well, but less often given the short timeframe to test things properly with a 3-4 month schedule.
I don’t think they’ld add it half-finished, just not visually up to release standards. (Although I don’t know what else you’ld call it that indicates that better than “Experimental”)
No matter what, it’s always gonna piss off a part of the player base. Whether it’s implementing it without visuals (Looks bad!) , not at all (Why no WASD?!) or even if they put every animator on it and it’s polished to perfection by April (Why waste time on this, it’s not important!)
To me, the important part is that it won’t be implemented in a way it’s mechanically vastly superior or inferior to keyboard/mouse.
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They are testing new mechanics to get feedback and decide if they gonna keep it in the game. It is something experimental added to the published game.
You can say that they are larger so it’s different, or that they are regular so it’s different, or that they are in different game and it’s different, but you are missing the point, that Macknum is not talking about these things, he is talking about adding experimental things in the published game. It’s your usual way of demagogy — writing many details about random related things so it would look like you wrote arguments about the topic.
First of all, not what I’m doing.
Secondly, has nothing to do with the size of the content provided, it has with the quality of it.
GGG’s leagues are fleshed out, full-scale, finished mechanics. Some are great, some are not, but it doesn’t matter because they have all the stuff generally needed to be deemed ‘solid release candidate’.
Has nothing to do with if it fits into their game long-term or not. All animations are available, all the interactions are fleshed out with a solid design concept behind it (albeit they screw that up at times) and it generally follows design guidelines overall.
If you can’t see the difference between that and a completely unfinished mechanical implementation that lacks animations or even the systems to support those animations then it would simply be a sad state.
Now you are saying “it is different because GGG’s leagues have better quality”. Again, nothing to do with adding something experimental in the released game to get feedback about it, which Macknum said and I replied to, not to that EHG shouldn’t add low-quality content into the game. It’s sad that you just can’t get to the point.
Obviously…
That’s the difference between ‘experimental’ and ‘release candidate’ after all.
Which is the whole argument there.
What are you even arguing about now?
I am arguing that there is nothing wrong with putting potentially interesting experimental things into released game to test how it will go, you are arguing that people shouldn’t add bad content into the game. And I am trying to explain that if you are changing the subject and replying to something what opponent didn’t say it is not a valid way to discuss anything, while you are trying to not understand what I am talking about.
It’s a complete nonsensical sentiment to introduce half-finished and barely tested mechanics into a game while being easily visible. There’s a difference between what you’re using as an example (Path of Exile) which hence provides the respective quality to not undermine your product… and what you’re vying for, which is gratingly unfinished, ugly, and unfitting quality related to the game overall otherwise.
And solely to mention. Experimental mechanics can be added even to a game like LE, though it needs to be behind a double opt-in layer to warrant it.
Meaning not only do you need to opt-in in the options to say ‘I’m fine to use likely broken things that look ugly’ with a secondary checkbox that specifically warns you if you ‘really really’ want it… and then at best providing a new option tab where you need to turn on the WASD input method.
And we’re not even talking about the balancing aspect of LE which is not made around WASD in mind at all. Which means the mechanical boss fights would need a heavy re-visit to allow both M&K as well as WASD to function properly without ridiculous upsides for one. PoE 2 for example did it well and - while in many cases superior nonetheless - WASD doesn’t affect the other control methods in a overly extreme manner. Which once more… LE has not been adjusted towards yet.
Do you actually know what sort of effort and time investment that alone warrants? While the state of the game is not remotely ‘great’ at the moment because of balance and missing longevity for a live-service game? It would be utter hubris for EHG to focus on WASD implementation - even experimental - at the current state of time.
Might change after 1.2 if the substance is enough… might not happen until 1.6 or later to even bring the experimental aspect into the game like mentioned above. But unconditional? Nonsensical.
Show me where I vying for unfinished, ugly, and unfitting quality content in my message you replied to.
Here you go, that’s where it started.
Macknum felt that including purely ‘experimental’ things in a released game feels wrong.
Your answer was that’s what GGG does.
My answer was that GGG does not do that, their leagues are not experimental, they are surprisingly well polished products.
You spoke against my argumentation by saying:
Which is not true, it’s classic seasonal content, just with the added bonus that aspects of it (never the full mechanic, which I find personally to be a downside) are kept and go ‘core’ afterwards.
You’re actively putting the WASD implementation on the same level as a full-fledged tested and designed league mechanic which is made specifically for the timeframe in mind, with the added bonus of maybe staying long-term for the bits working decently well with the game in a permanent manner.
Once more… if you can’t see the difference that’s on you, not others. Putting them on the same level is actively saying ‘If GGG does it then EHG can do it too!’
The issue being… they’re not on the same level, hence no comparison.
That’s vying for inclusion of it despite the provided counterarguments.
They are testing new mechanics, this is experiment.
We are not talking about WASD here. Macknun generalized it to not adding any experimental content in general, this is what I replied to.
The whole topic here is about WASD… as the first point.
The second is, no matter how you want to twist and turn it, PoE provides classic seasonal content. It’s never been something else. A - nearly - static cycle time between them to then be flushed out and the next coming in.
GGG solely does it better then usual seasonal content by providing lasting improvements to the game through them at times.
So yes, they’re using them to experiment… but that doesn’t make them ‘experimental’. Experimental in the way it’s used in the context here is ‘mechanics which aren’t finished but we just provide the best we’ve come up with for now in the meanwhile and see how it goes.’
Doesn’t mean that when someone talks about something else, he is talking about WASD, isn’t it obvious?
I can’t seriously answer to this 
Ever heard of a term having several meanings?
Ever thought that changing meanings of people’s words to match any argument you want to make is not a valid way to discuss things?
What it’ll be most likely because the game wasn’t designed with WASD in mind and EHG is jumping on the bandwagon.
Again… this is what gametesting or betas are for. On steam they can easiely create a “WASD Beta” branch for everyone and their grandmothers to play and give feedback on before they implement it to the real game.
This is simply the next time consuming construction site while they are behind their roadmap by months. Sure maybe they let devs do it that have nothing else to do right now but i highly doubt it.
As it seems we’ll see how thigs turn out in April and if EHG is making themselfs look bad or not. Most people won’t care about tbf because most people have no time and just want to play the game with the little time at hand. So after all it will do no good or harm I guess.
For people who are more invested into LE or H&S games in general thinks will most likely be different and there will most likely be an argument again between people who dislike the implementation and people who like it… the useual stuff 
.
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I have faith in EHG as a company who wants to make a great ARPG, but it’s things like this that have caused me to not really want to play that much in the past year. I did play a bit during 1.1, but not nearly as much as I did pre-1.0
We have outdated classes, classes with no real identity (coughShamancough), skills that need heavy reworks (thankfully, Volatile Reversal has been reworked), systems that need reworked/Improved, and a road map that needs worked on, and instead we get distractions like WASD or the addition of new factions.
Like, if EHG could focus, LE could really be a polished gem like Grim Dawn but it’s going to be a while. I’ll probably lay off LE until 1.2 launches as it stands.
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I tried “Dragonkin: The Banished”, it has D4 type of wasd (without moving during attacks), and released that the difference between PoE 2 combat and combat like this is just huge. Now I think that it probably doesn’t matter much if EHG will implement such control scheme or not, LE’s gameplay will feel very clunky regardless. I don’t think that any ARPG will have combat of PoE 2 level anytime soon, not even close.
It highly depends on how broad you set up this asumption. For example there is a 2D H&S called Hero Siege where you are able to do everything on the move. While it’s a bit far fetched because isometric H&S games != 2D H&S games but there are games designed arround WASD and there are games that try to jump the bandwagon by implementing WASD in a wonky way only for the sake of implementing WASD.
It’s like all the people who praised “A Song of Ice and Fire” after the series came out while others already waited 6 years for the next book.
I only see one way how EHG can handle this in my narrowmindnes most likely. Just hold it back untill it’s good.
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