I haven’t played much GD (couple hundred hours I think) and I think I have barely rotated my camera 
. But that’s me
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I don’t do it that often, but in some situations it’s handy. Mostly for ranged builds, obviously. It feels pretty nice to be able to snipe a hard boss from further away, at times.
Me either & I used to rotate my camera all the time in Sacred 2.
Btw, want to add about that basic wasd implementation would look crappy. It would look EXACTLY like it looks right now, with click-to-move 
. When you are firing at one direction and then moving to another, this is exactly what is happening. And postponing some improving for a year for no reason, reducing playerbase doesn’t look like a smart choice to me. I never heard someone would cry about bad wasd implementation in D4, but heard about no WASD at all in LE.
Well, like i previously said, I think current state of the game is the results of stacking bad choices, same way as current state of PoE 1 in terms of constantly increasing playerbase is a result of smart choices during long period of time. You can defend every choice of LE devs as long as you want, but well.
No, that’s wrong. Right now the character turns to look in the direction you’re moving and then turns to look in the direction you’re shooting. If you implement a simple stutter-step it will look janky because the character will constantly be switching directions several times per second.
Which is exactly what PoE2’s WASD doesn’t do. It keeps the character looking in the direction you’re aiming at and the character simply backsteps or sidesteps. Which, again, falls into the “new animations are needed” category.
That is because you didn’t bother looking into their forums or into reddit. Lots of people complain about WASD in D4 because it has no smooth movement and is “blocky”. Playing with WASD in D4 feels like playing the snake game on the old mobile phones.
I never defended every choice they made. In fact, I have often pointed out things I don’t agree with.
However, implementing a janky WASD just to shut up players would definitely fall into the “bad choice” category. So you’re saying they should make smarter choices but are actively pushing for a bad one. Doesn’t seem very consistent to me.
When you dash in D4, it almost always lagging, it’s horrible, probably you mean those complains.
You do release that in PoE 2, it is not just animations. right? Every skill was reworked and rebalanced to combine firing and moving. You really expect this level om imlementation in LE? Even if you do, I really don’t think that everybody else does.
No, I mean people complaining that you can’t run in a proper straight line and have to zigzag because the movement is extremely blocky. Like I said, it’s like playing snake on mobile.
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Hm, but why can’t you run in a proper straight line, what do you mean? If you are about interacting with obstacles, I can assure you it’s the same in PoE 2.
There are 2 main big differences between D4 and PoE2’s WASD:
-Characters move much slower in PoE2. This means that you can make adjustments to your path more often than in D4.
-The reaction time to keys in PoE2 is much smaller. This means that you when you press W and then A you move a smaller distance to the right before going up, which makes it feel a lot smoother.
Both combined make it so that it feels a lot better in PoE2 and looks actually similar to using a mouse. Whereas in D4 there is no such impression. You definitely know when someone is using WASD.
Yes. Playing with mouse and keyboard feels as good as WASD. You don’t feel like you’re missing out on damage because you don’t use WASD. If you compare it to Undecember, though, you definitely are loosing DPS when not using WASD. There’s even a video showcasing this.
So if you simply implement WASD without making it be balanced with mouse, then you’re effectively forcing everyone to play with WASD, even people that hate it. Which will then leave because of it.
So yes, it is expected that WASD is implemented in such a way that it isn’t a straight up DPS increase over mouse.
You mean to say that you don’t think everybody that wants to use WASD does. Because that concern is very much present in all the players that dislike WASD.
Even more so after PoE2 where those same players saw it implemented in such a way that doesn’t force them to use it.
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I don’t see the logic here. What was made in PoE 2, in your opinion, for making mouse-to-move work better? Its dps reduced exactly the same way as in Undecember, for the same exact reason — you can’t turn around that fast, and I think there is nothing really what could be done about that. In Undecember, probably dps reduced less because you can set up automatic attack which may help with certain playstyles.
No, I mean to say what I said — that atm it is unrealistic to expect PoE 2 level of implementation in LE, with reworked skills, so most people don’t expect this. Do you? You think, all skills will be reworked for WASD in LE?
It’s not reduced in the same way. What PoE2 did better was to improve mouse movement. You can click on the far left of the screen and then click on the right to shoot and the character will keep moving. This is a huge distinction and is what makes it feel better than every other game, where you start moving to the left but then stop moving because you’re shooting.
I don’t think you need to rework any skill. You just need to do what PoE2 did and improve mouse movement. The reason why PoE2 doesn’t feel like a DPS loss is solely because of the improved mouse movement. Skill balance has nothing to do with that.
Oh, actually in PoE 2 you probably keep moving to previous point when you press the attack, it could make it smoother indeed. Not sure how exactly it works, never tried click-to-move.
Yes, I see. Must be a huge difference indeed.
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I think swapping to firing during movement will require it. Especially if some skills will make you stationary. In PoE 2, there are stationary skills which do more damage (like Snipe). Enemies probably would need to be rebalanced too. I wouldn’t expect from LE team anything but just animation reworking, which is basically the same as the basic implementation in my opinion.
I personally see that as a downside, the static camera still used nowadays often leads to issues after all.
For example, if the character model is to be displayed in the outermost third of the screen dependant on the direction of where you look at then downsides like the forced displacement of the character model to be a bit below the middle of the screen would fade away. Currently it’s a relatively universal problem with bird’s eye view games that have a fixed camera, causing moving downwards the screen to have less visibility then upwards.
This leads to either outranging enemies which are at the upper border of the screen, making encounters vastly easier then they’re supposed to… or leading to enemies off-screening you from the lower border of the screen. Either/or. It’s visible in PoE, PoE 2 and also Last Epoch quite easily after all.
With the shifting camera instead this issue would fall away, demanding camera positioning accordingly and allowing enemy perception to work similar for every direction without upsides or downsides.
Nobody thought to properly implement it as it’s extra work on top of one of the most complex mechanical systems on the market. Itemization, combat and loot spread are extremely complex for the genre in comparison to others, demanding a much higher amount of work and effort to get into a properly working state. Which is why the genre is so loved after all by peole which enjoy a long-term game as it’s a genre which - when properly developed - creates a extremely high limit for player skill, while the itemization is usually as complex or even beyond compared to other RPGs on the market… and RPGs already have the highest itemization complexity available in games.
That’s because players don’t know the upsides and downsides coming along with it. People generally don’t see something as ‘better’ then existing solutions until they’re shoved down their throat directly… many people even arguing while having all presented information directly in front of them… up until the point they personally experience it.
Zizaran uses WASD, which is one if not the biggest PoE 2 streamer in the world currently.
ZiggyD uses WASD as well.
DatModz uses WASD too.
Nugiyen does too.
Those are all the world-wide biggest group of PoE 2 Streamers. So your argument is absolutely wrong.
Mathil used keyboard&mouse for example solely as much as I saw.
Oh, Quin also uses WASD btw.
It’s rather the opposite, the majority of streamers use WASD, the minority of big-scale ones usw keyboard&mouse, the absolute minority uses controller.
And that’s the primary reason why it isn’t done. Much like further zoom in PoE 1 for example.
0 games of this genre are properly developed though, from this perspective Don’t remember LE’s lategame, I think player’s skill might be involved there, but probably not much. Like, if some player has significantly stronger build, he will always dominate the player with weaker build, even if player with weaker build is much more skillful. Well, unless player with stronger build can’t play at all, ofc. I.e., player need some minimal skill to play, everything beyond that minimal level is optional and doesn’t matter much.
I hope that PoE 2 will become the game where player’s skill plays a large role, currently it plays important role in some parts of the game (like Sekhema Trials), but overall in endgame only build/items matters, not a skill.
The only ARPG I saw where skill matters quite a lot is a boss rush mode in Undecember. Still mostly determined by level and build, but with the same build, skillful players will always go few steps further there and it was quite interesting challenge.
No Rest for the Wicked is thought as an Arpg where the player skill is the most important. Arguably it’s more a souls like
Oh, that is the one I never played. Sounds interesting, I guess I might try after all.