Warpath & echoes

It would be nice if Warpath interacted with the Void Knight’s echo mechanic, I know that movement skills can’t echo (which is fair enough), but what if the Cascading/Abyssal Orbs could echo? That would give the player a reason to go in those directions.

Maybe you could suggest something like “what you want” on such a thread like this one, here:

Yes, though this is for Warpath specifically rather than nodes on the VK passive tree.

On Passive you could do it for all movement skills with void knight exclusively. :slightly_smiling_face:
(Just some passive points for each movement skill or so.)
Passive 1: Warpath Cascading/Abyssal Orbs have a 10/20/30 % chance to echo now.
Passive 2: Shield Rushs Echos have another 10/20/30 % chance to echo.
Passive 3: Lunge final hit has a 10/20/30 % chance to echo.

or one single passive for all of them: 5/10/15/20/25/ %.

Echoes are already exclusive to void knight. A would like to see an echo of me using warpath though
Each second has a chance to proc for 1 second

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Shield rush echoes on forge guard and paladin too i think.
(maybe shield rush should be a void knight skill then ^^)

Nah. Echoes is exclusive to void knight mastery bonus and top half of its tree

The problem with the movement skills themselves echoing is that it’s probably not what the player wants, you generally want to move from your current location to a specific other location, if the skill then echoed, where would it take you?

Shield Rush does have a node that repeats the big AoE when you stop Rushing, but (despite the name of the node) that’s not an echo, that’s a repeat.

I do like @boardman21’s idea of having a shadow also do a Warpath, especially if it then targeted other mobs & acted like a minion with it’s own AI, rather than it just follow behind me.

I dont think its to much of a problem if they mechanically work like smite. Smite can echo even when you take the teleport node. When it echoes the echies smite doesnt effect you.

In this example if a echo used warpath if wouldnt impede or affect your character it would just do its own thing for 1 second

While the echo used warpath for 1 second all its hits would have a chance to proc secondary spells like cascade/abyssal orb thus somewhat producing what the OP wanted on a more thematic scale

I’m not entirely sure I agree with your premise that Warpath echoing wouldn’t impede/change your movement, I think it depends how it’s coded. If it’s coded to work similarly to the Rogue’s Shadows, then that would be fine (it spawns a Shadow that does whatever the skill that proc’d it does), but I’m not sure that’s how it’s coded.

In fact, it might be a good idea if they did make the VK’s echo mechanics to function in a similar way as the Rogue’s Shadows, that way your excellent suggestion could be implemented. When the echo procs while you’re Warpathing then you get a “Shadow/Echo” spawn that then uses that skill for 1s, same with Lunge/Shield Rush.

@EHG_Mike is this possible? Presumably not for 0.8.1. Now that we’ve seen what LE can do with the Rogue’s Shadows, would it be possible to re-implement the VK’s Echos in a similar way? They count as the player using an abillity for all the stats & procs but can’t then also proc Echos themselves.

It would make me a happy Llama. Almost as happy as if Sigils of Hope were reworked…

Shadows and echoes are implemented very differently.

Even if it were like shadows, I’m not sure how we would do warpath. Being both a channeled and movement skill, the target acquisition and updating to be effective would be nuts. This is the rabbit hole that we end up going down when trying to make it work. How long does it hold the channel for? The check for echoes happens when you initially cast the skill. So does it have a fixed duration? That ends up with people tapping warpath instead of holding it. It probably shouldn’t be right on top of you because it’s already fairly noisy. Does it go the opposite direction of you to avoid? Does it simply spin in place? What if you have the no move node?

This list of problems with it goes on and on. I don’t want to say that we’ll never do it but unless a really crazy awesome solution is found to fix this and more, we likely won’t spend dev time on it pre-1.0

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That’s what I thought.

Yeah, those are all fair questions (obviously).

Perhaps there could be a node that has an effect specific to the mastery you chose (or 3 nodes, one per mastery). The VK node could have a chance to spawn “echoes” every x seconds you’re channelling (& possibly, have hit a mob “recently”), with the % chance taken from your chance to echo (10% at base, up to 40%). If it “succeeds” on the check then it spawns an “echo” (like the Rogue’s Shadow, so an extension of the player, not a minion) that targets a random nearby mob & Warpath’s towards the mob for 1s. If it’s easier, it could just be an “echo” that has an AoE aura that has the same stats as the Warpath & same chance to proc stuff (Abyssal/Cascading orbs, Future Strikes, etc). If you had the no-move node then it would be spawned on top of a random nearby mob.

For the Forge Guard node it could have a % chance to proc a Forged Weapon on hit.

For the Paladin node it could do something heal-y, or fire-y., or has a% chance to proc Smite or Holy Aura on hit.

Or failing all of that, just have the Abyssal/Cascading Orb nodes be able to be echo’d.

With other skills the echo is casted on skill use. So attack speed affects the echo rate: more attacks = more echoes. So I’d love to not have a fix “every x seconds”, but something based on attack speed.

Having the echo spin in place for 0.5 seconds would do it for me. Similar to shadow cascade. The exact position could be random in a small radius around the character.

This may sound simpler in theory than it could implemented. I don’t know as I’m no dev myself.

Just don’t think too complicated. Something simple and maybe not that perfect is better than nothing, imho.

Yeah, but Warpath has such a high attack speed most of the time without some form of cap or limit a 40% chance to echo would have them being spammed all over the place. And if it’s “on use”, then you’d just be tapping Warpath to proc it & not actually using Warpath, hence it would need to be “on hit” with a cooldown or something.

Warpath hits double the amount. And because of this the ailment chances are halved.

Also Echoes won’t proc on hit. I did not mean to do that. Just take attack speed into account (some weird formular…) so warpath echoes do also benefit from AS as all other skills do.

What if it’s even simpler for movement skills - an x% chance for the skill to do 50% additional damage as void on hit. Not 100% additional damage (might be too good for weapon speed?) and maybe the x% needs to be reduced due to the movement/multi-hit nature of the skills (cut it in half?), but those are implementation details.

I’m firmly in the camp that movement skills deserve something. Using Warpath as a main skill is fun, but it feels bad to completely exclude a core implementation of VKs.

I would just be happy if warpath did a generic “echo” in just doing a double hit.

I think that, as a channeled skill, maybe there should be an amendment to echo producing passives that give a different “while channeling” effect. Something like;

Echoing Stikes
Echo Chance: 2% per point
2% Void Penetration per point while channeling.

The coding for making echoes work for channeled skills may be a bit too much, but it wouldn’t be hard to have each of the echo nodes give a separate bonus to channeled skills. It could be added/increased crit chance, crit multi, penetration, time rot chance, Future Strike chance, etc.

I think it would be penalising the movement skills if they had to put precious skill points into specific nodes to get an echo-like effect. If each/most nodes had an additional benefit that had a chance to proc based on the echo chance, that would be ok.

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