I have been really enjoying the game and have been working in the endgame for a little bit now. There are a few pieces about endgame I have been somewhat dissatisfied with. I had made another post about End game monster density in the MoF. If you are interested in joining the discussion on this topic, you can check it out here End Game Monster Density - #4 by Llama8
However the other point I was hoping to discuss is the rewards in the Arena. I have been very much enjoying the endgame and the MoF feels varied and especially when you put the time in to push to further levels the MoF feels rewarding at the end of each level with the loot. However, I came across a few Arena keys and tried out this mode. The mode is fun albeit a little slow paced especially if your build is capable of reaching 100+ waves since you need to begin at wave 1 each time. But what struck me most was the supreme lack of drops or interesting loot from this mode even when you push deep.
The EXP gain is wonderful especially past wave 30 or so. But every time i go in there and invest my time in the arena it feels almost wasted since my time and effort are not being met with the expected explosion of loot. The end chest is particularly disappointing especially after going through 100+ waves. The amount of loot is maybe comperable to a level 10 deep monolith run.
Ideally id love to see the arena have a place and be a fun endgame activity people can focus on. One possible thing could be locking certain very powerful item affixes and only make them attainable there. The for each item with this affix type items come to mind as a good example. These are incredibly powerful affixes, or affixes that cannot be crafted onto gear normally.
A good example of this is in wolcen (another new arpg). They have an endgame timed rift type activity where you rush to the boss and kill it as fast as you can and reward you with rare items with affixes that cannot be found or crafted anywhere else in the game. A well rolled/crafted item with these affixes are quite valuable and people very much enjoy this game mode because of them.
These are just a few examples of ideas. Other things could be craftable idols or powerful uniques that can only drop after X wave in the arena or even just a significant item quantity boost as you go deeper.
I would argue that the Monolith (with itâs % item rarity bonuses based on the dangerous-ness of the mods you select & how far you go) is better for items & the Arena is better for xp. I think whether the different modes should be focussed on different things (items / xp) is a design decision that the devs have/should make & be happy with & that may be different to what we might want or be happy with.
That said, I would be happy to see other end-game modes with other focusses/rewards such as the one you mention.
Thats fair, I am not sure what the developers plans were when designing the 2 different modes, but I just find when I invest my time in the arena, I usually walk away feeling very disappointed and as though I wasted my time.
I have done a few to test my builds and feel the progression but it doesnt feel like anything more than a novelty at the moment without some kind of incentivised reward that is unattainable via some other method. Since at the end of the day, the arena has the most difficult content and has the leaderboard.
I donât mean this in a harsh way, but I think thatâs on you. If you go into an arena wanting to come away with lots of shiny loot, then yes, youâll likely be disappointed, but if you go into it expecting minimal in the way of loot but bucket loads of xp, then I think youâll enjoy it more. So I think part of that is player expectations, youâre going in expecting a similar amount of loot to monoliths but thatâs not what itâs for.
I would argue that arena does have an âincentivised reward that is unattainable via some other methodâ, lots of xpâŚ
The game doesnât set that expectation up at all from gameplay to the introduction of the arena. The game up until that point has been, Kill monster, get loot, get excited for shiny loot, repeat. Thats how all of these types of games are and is the general gameplay loop. the âquest for better pantsâ loop.
If the game somehow setup the expectation through gameplay that the arena is supposed to be essentially no loot, I wouldnât walk away disappointed that there was no loot/very little loot.
The game sets it up as the ânext stepâ of endgame and its the only thing in game that requires an item you must earn through other gameplay to access. The mind expects from these steps that âthis new thing must be better if i have to jump through all these hoops to do itâ
As an experienced player like you seem to be, you know better to not expect anything from it. But as a newer player to this game. The system feels particularly unrewarding since I can do monoliths and get good enough exp and much, much more loot per time invested.
Ideally, Iâd love to see the arena offer something that you cannot get elsewhere and give it a strong purpose other than to show off.
As someone that detests endgame Arenas I would not like it at all if anything was locked to this mode. I find Arena modes lazy and uninspiring design and I hope that itâs just an endgame place holder in LE until the devs bring in the true endgame modes.
Monolithâs on the other hand are good fun and I hope this is the direction the end game can follow and improve on.
If the Arena ends up being the only place you can reach high character levels due to it having higher XP gains, I cannot see me playing this game long term after release.
That is the idea of having different activities for different people endgame. Ideally they all should feel rewarding for time spent. Ideally there should be something motivating to allow people who enjoy playing the arena game mode but detest monoliths to gain out of doing the arena.
Yeah I agree with you there but I donât agree with locking things in certain game modes. That could potentially force players into doing something they really donât enjoy doing
Although I really wonât go further than that in trying to make sense of the current endgame systems with regard to their objective and purpose. They are effectively placeholder systems at the moment and something like the current monolith isnât even EHGâs full vision of what they have for the mode. But I imagine suggestions on how the current endgame can be improved are still useful feedback for the devs.
I totally share your point of view of this mode so i procrastinate. I probably have 30âs keys in my chest but, even with the xp benefits, i clearly lack of motivation.
Nevertheless, the main problem is imho the rythm. You get bored easily because of the slow progress in a very repetitive pattern. It would be probably more incentive for me with a better dynamic (more in line with the mode)
And as @Jerle says, we have to wait the finished version to give more toughtful feedbacks.
Afaik Arena is just a placeholder to give people some scaling content to show off and to be placed in a ladder. Iâm not even sure if arena is ment to stay once the game is released but there is a dev blog about endgame modes.
This is correct. Arena just is a placeholder. Because of the popularity EHG is discussing internally if they wanna keep this mode and how to improve it.
I donât like arena in his current state. It lacks some spice. But could be just more fun playing multiplayer arena.
They could add a boss encounter every 5 waves, that has to be beaten in a certain time or that slowly walks towards a certain point and the player has to prevent him reaching that point (slowing/freezing/stunning would be essential). Mobs would spawn at a specific rate as long as the boss is alive. Perhaps even add npc defensive systems like catapults and balistas that deal huge damage to the boss and you have to protect.
Its true, but the mechanics of the current game really dont lead you to see that when being taught. It seems like it should be the next step in the progression like rifts -> Greater rifts in D3. This is not the case and its disheartening and makes the arena feel not very worthwhile
Iâm OK with Arena being arena for âArenaâs sakeâ but the tension is lost when it asks if you want to progress every 5 levels. There is a decision point that needs to be made: âDo I greedily go on or do I cash in my chipsâ
If itâs just for XP and the reward is trivial, then just bring on wave after wave after wave without asking if you want to cash in.
On another point, you have to farm 5 Monos to even attempt an arena so the expectation of âsomething betterâ is already built into it.
Honestly passed wave 50, iâm really bored (and i donât go at high lvl like some crazy dudes). I usually let the game running and i go watch a series episode or do sports before going back. As we donât have pause mode in the game atm, please donât do that
I would have to agree with this statement. I played the content and worked up to the End of Time area. So when I see there were these Monolithâs and Arenas, I was pretty excited. I completed and failed several Monolithâs which rewarded me Lots O Loot during the gameplay and then there was a chest of more loot at the end upon completion. This was very exciting and rewarding for my work. I finally received a Arena Key. Now it was time to try my hand at the arena, I hoped to see some cool items drop at the end. I was not sure what to expect when entering the arena. Then the waves started, and loot was dropping (a little). So I ran around picking up the crafting pieces and the Yellow quality items. Then there was a break every five waves. This was cool, I had a stash chest and a vendor. This was nice to have so I did not take a chance on losing my loot or not being able to pick something up due to my inventory being full. I think I made it to wave 30ish before I perished. I remember seeing an Idol on the ground I was unable to pick up before I died. I thought 'aw shoot. I hoped that the chest at the end of the arena would have some cool stuff in it to help make up for me not getting that idol. So when I made it through the load screen to see âNothingâ waiting for me was quite deflating. I can see on the leader boards there are players reaching very high wave counts, but the only thing they get for their efforts is what they can pick up off the ground. It seems that the Monolithâs reward better and more items then the arena. Monolithâs do not require any keys but the arena does. I understand that there is a prestige of placing on the leaderboard, but not everyone will place on the leaderboard. Not everyone will want to, but it seems to me that the arena should offer a higher chance at better/more loot than the Monolith. Otherwise, the only real reason to even do Arenas is to try and flex for those on the leaderboard.
Suggestions:
*maybe have the arena drop zero items during the event, that way the player can concentrate more on the fight. Rather than possibly dying trying to pick up an item.
*Instead of having a wave break every 5 waves, have breaks every 25 waves or no breaks (if there is no loot to pick up during the fight, no need to break)
*Have a chest waiting for the player near the arena portal with Lots Oâ Loot once they return to âThe End of Timeâ area.
*make the amount of loot received be based on the number of waves completed before death. Maybe after a set number of waves completed there is a unique item available. (Example: complete 25 waves you get a guaranteed unique item along with the standard yellow, blue, white quality items and crafting materials.)
