Hello all.
Devs, please delete the limit of loot filter rules or set it of many thousands. It’s very need at minimum for players of merchant guild wich want to play by 3 or more builds. Don’t forget that except rules with items for their builds these players need use rules for trade.
May be somebody will say: “Use more than 1 page of rules.” but it’s not a solve of this problem because in this game we have drop system wich drop items for all classes to all characters. If i will use another page i will lose very much time of equiping my other characters because i will can’t use rules for them.
May be somebody will say: “Delete trade rules and use another rules.” but it’s not a solve too because if i will do it i will lose tons of gold.
I am a player of merchant guild and now i have loot filter for 3 characters and trade but i want to try new class and can’t do it because limit of loot filter rules. I very strong don’t want to lose or much time for equiping my other characters or tons of gold. Devs please give me a possibility to play another classes without very serious losses.
P.s. If someone agree with me please press like and vote for this theme. Hope developers will pay attention for this problem.
Everyone would like that. But the reason there is a limit is simply for performance reasons. If it weren’t for that, they would give you more rules for sure.
As much as I think more rules for the filter are not a bad idea, and I understand the reason there aren’t more now, but I think improving Stash Search would be my larger priority to want first.
Idk why you mention performance, this is pure client feature. Just make it unlimited. And idk even why this must be a performance issue. Even with 1k rules, this is simple loot filtering not some 3d rendering thing.
What is a “pure client feature” ? We can clearly tell you are not a programmer and you have no clue what you are talking about. I assume you mean that this would be handled purely by your hardware, but when the devs add something like this they need to make sure it will ron smoothly for everybody and not only people with specific hardware specs. On top of that mroe often than not the hwardware is not the limiting factor, but the engine.
Performance considerations have been named a couple of times among other things from the devs regarding many suggestions for the loot filter, including more rules, sounds, icons, light pillars etc.
I am sure EHG is working on this and eventually we will see improvements. But it’s not just as easy as just bumping up the limit for rules and be done with it.
Software always have minimal and recommended requirements.
Intel Core i5 2500 or AMD FX-4350 minimal for LE and you think i5 can’t handle some array filtering?
Engine? You are not programmer indeed. Even with c# you can do some kind of calculations very fast. c# is not fast enough? Use C/C++ for god sake no one restricting you.
Yeah it’s kinda easy like that! That limit rule added because EHG was busy with other things and don’t want to spend much time on loot filter testing. That’s “just in case” limit like “our servers can handle 100m connections, but to be sure we limit them to 50m”.
And main part, man that was rude.
Who the fck are “we”? And trust me I have a clue.
Yeah sure filter in-memory array of 10-30 items with ~10 parameters with ruleset of those paramerers it’s pretty hard thing todo you are right. On Xeon processor you mean? No wait, even old xeon could do that in few ms. For example, you can parse and load 2gb of XML files with few params from ssd to sql database in just 5 seconds on 5 years old cpu without using gpu even and don’t even compare that time to in-memory operations which can be done even on gpu. Man, stop talking bs if you don’t know. No hard feelengs.
It is NOT just filtering an array. For every item that drops, all the rules have to be run to see if they will render the label or not. And there are lots of items that drop all the time, in case you haven’t noticed.
And when you open the filter window, all the rules have to be run on all items that are in the visible area, so they can be rendered again with the rule numbers, as well as any potential changes.
But I’m pretty sure this isn’t a “client only” code. Which actually makes sense from a programming standpoint if you think about it (as a programmer) for more than 5 seconds.
Loot on the ground isn’t permanent, but it stays around for as long as you are in the area.
That means that the loot is being stored alongside the zone instance (which is on the server). So either:
A) The server is running the calculations for each drop and storing the value on show/not show so that you can simply run around and not have to do extra calculations; or
B) It runs on the client but every single step you move it will calculate all items on the ground.
B seems to be highly ineffective and would lead to performance issues for sure, so A is the more likely method being used.
But even if we were to assume a client based calculation, it would still lead to performance issues. Yes, running this alone would be pretty simply for modern computers. But the fact is that this is only one of dozens or hundreds of calculations that are being run all the time.
So increasing it would have an impact on the overall performance anyway.
That is very bad solution, that should be on client. There is no single point to do that on server. It’s purely cosmetic feature.
For B you don’t need to calculate items every time. When the item drop first time mark it, thats all. When you next time meet it in area take the calculated value. In fact you can even precalculate filter for some items.
May be, but show loot or not is on client, thats would be very bad solution to calculate lootfilter on server (nonsense). And we have offline mode idk where loot stored, ,may be on client. Even with server storing it should look like this:
something drops, server push to client id and attributes (or only id, may be items stored in data files by tiers, that would me more effective when noone cares about 1 or 2 gigs space).
client see that something dropped with id
client check that id in local array is it for show or not
if (3) is not fould, client calculate show it or not using lootfilter
client store value from (3) into local array
Thats all, next time when we meet that dropped batch of items we just take the values using (3) coz we calculate them already. In case you changed lootfilter, we clearing array.
Still can’t see performance issues, may lootfilter can “loop” some rules or something, but it’s coding issue. Guys, discount table for thousands of products/clients more complicated than that loofilter and all works fine. I think we should stop here, it was just my anger response to personal post of Heavy.
btw when you press ctrl-x (?) to redraw lables it works pretty fast with current filter settings. You think adding few more hundreds make it slow?
No, thats is the main point of my post was. hundreds of calculations? You mean trillions or something? Don’t forget graphic card, you can calculate there. If you need that ofc.
IANAP, but why would you tun the filter on the server? Yes the server knows about the loot but why would it care if the player does/does not want to see it? All loot is instanced so it doesn’t matter what other player filters are at least.
Doesn’t it do this 'cause the item labels move around as you walk? I could get it if the server didn’t send you the data for the hidden items but then there’d be a lag spike when you disabled the filter & i think it’d have to send you all the drops data anyway 'cause the items have to be modelled on the ground whether they’re hidden or not (this isn’t Slormancer).
Wouldn’t you just need to run the filter when an item drops & then rerun it when the filter changes? I don’t get why the filter would need to be “recalculated” (for want of a better term) in real time when there’s no changes to either the filter or items on the ground.
That will actually depend a lot on how they coded stuff. The most common way to do it is to unload stuff that goes offscreen. You don’t keep the whole map (and thus all the drops) loaded in memory all the time. So when you go back, it gets re-rendered. Which means it needs to run the filter rules again.
But surely you’d have to keep the location & item/mob details in memory, just not rendered by the gfx part of the game engine, otherwise the server would have to send the same data to the client if you backtracked “too much” (& the client had dumped that part of the map).
Even if we unload stuff that goes offscreen we still can keep old loot information in memory. There is no point in redoing calculations again. If they are so resource intensive as we think, doub’t that. I don’t think they are, so rules limit have another background story
There are many ways this could be coded and many games did it in different ways. Both server and client side.
But the fact that the devs have said specifically that the number of filter rules is specifically because of performance issues (and that it’s because of that that the chest reward for echoes doesn’t just dump everything on the ground at once but over a period of a few seconds) makes me believe that’s the issue. Especially when they’ve always been honest about such things in the past.
Maybe they run in the client side, but so do hundreds of other calculations every second. Maybe they could increase them and they would have to increase the minimum requirements so older computers can’t play LE anymore.
There are many things that can cause this and I tend to believe the devs when they claim it’s because of performance issues. Modern games are extremely complex and are certainly more complex than simply running array matches (also, filter rules aren’t a simple equality check).
They’re working on the filter (including adding sounds/beacons) and we’ll have to wait and see what they come up with.
I too would like more rules for the lootfilter
I’m sure the performance issues for unlimited/1000+ rules lootfilter can be solved if you try
75 Rules are just not enough if you want to collect items for multiple builds + still just good items
