Trade & Item Factions

[Fugue]

@BroncoCollider

@Fugue

you should take the more traditional approach of imposing a small AH fee.

They did.

@EHG_Kain

The Merchant’s Guild doesn’t take a cut of any profits, so the Asking Price is what another player will need to pay to buy the item, and you will get the full asking price upon sale.

This contradicts imo.

[ante.dadic89]

Can someone please answer are prophecies, factions and favour all available in pure offline mode?

[Darthelmet]

This is a problem with the way the loot grind works in most ARPGs. The stronger your gear gets, the more specific and high quality it needs to be before it’s even an upgrade at all, let alone a significant one. Even with higher drop rates, the time between upgrades increases until you get too bored to keep going.

LE’s crafting system does wonders to help make the early part of the gear grind feel a lot better since you can actually take decent looking drops and turn them into gear you want with just a few crafts. But it doesn’t do much to fix that higher end of the gear grind since any piece that isn’t already really close to what you need isn’t gonna suddenly be good enough after a craft.

I do kind of wish the game could have a solution for this, either through CoF or some other system. It doesn’t need to be easy, but there needs to be some light at the end of the tunnel for whatever you’re chasing.

[stebobibo]

How is faction reputation shared across cycle characters? You mention it here, but it doesn’t explain it well:

@EHG_Kain

Your reputation with a faction is never lost or spent and is also shared across your account in that game mode. This means if you rank up one character to Circle of Fortune Rank 7 on Hardcore Cycle, any of your Hardcore Cycle characters upon joining Circle of Fortune will both share and contribute to that same Rank progression.

Like, does this mean all characters on the SAME cycle? Or all characters in EVERY cycle, meaning your faction progress carries on from one cycle to the next (you never have to grind for it again, even years down the line)? Thanks in advance for answering!

[PvtVlad]

Both Factions will be available in offline, though one of them seem pretty useless

[EHG_Mike]

If they share a stash, they share faction progress.

[Houlala]

@Nalaar

I’d really like to see some flavor for MG.

Hmmm, I don’t know…
The way I see it, CoF feels a lot more fun, while MG is more about power.
But I think it is a fair trade-off. People looking for min-max will go for MG, people looking for more fun activities will go CoF. A good, balanced choice.
If you give MG the same amount of flavour and fun stuff to do, it would become the go-to option for nearly everyone (same amount of fun + more power).

[Llama8]

@ExsiliumUltra

the loop holes

Which ones would they be?

@oldschooldiablo

Why would anyone go trade with how CoF is set up

Because not everyone likes the rng of drops. Trade is guaranteed (if you can afford it).

I think the fact that there are people (who haven’t tried it) both claiming that it’s “obvious” that both sides will be better than the other is a good thing as it means that the factions system appeals to both types of player (pro/anti trade). If there are more people playing one over the other, i think that says more about the players than whether trade is/is not better than CoF.

@Lpzie

How will this system work with a possible Guild Stash

There isn’t currently planned to be one.

@Heavy

I hate comparing everything to PoE especially for systems that are really innovative.

It’s the only other big arpg with trade. It is inevitable and a good thing (a source/pressure to improve).

@doombybbr

Ok for farming drop uniques that do not have a special base type…

RoA can give you any drop unique regardless of whether it has a unique base or not.

@doombybbr

I think that the most important change is Rank 2 - as currently CoF does not in fact seem to have a decent way to target farm specific uniques the way a merchant can just BUY an omnis for a ton of favour.

But CoF is supposed to be all about rng. If you made it deterministic (such as a prophecy that dropped a specific unique) that would make it like the trade faction but not requiring gold or other people. Or rng (which is the entire theme of the faction).

If you want less/no rng, play MG. That’s what it’s for.

@oldschooldiablo

It doesnt feel good imo to give something content wise to COF but MG is strictly the bazaar.

Prophecies aren’t content. MG & CoF have just as much content available to them as thd other.

[Heavy]

@Llama8

@Heavy

I hate comparing everything to PoE especially for systems that are really innovative.

It’s the only other big arpg with trade. It is inevitable and a good thing (a source/pressure to improve).

But it gets old and esepcially when taking examples that are not even compareable.

There is nothing quite like a Faction Approach (in a ARPG), even Trade vs SSF is not really compareable here because these are not two seperate game modes in LE.
Also there is nothing in PoE that compares to Prophecies and Lenses, with the exception of the now removed Prophecies in PoE, which were absolutely random and nothing for SSF for the most part.

I do comparisons to PoE myself a lot of the time, but only when it makes sense.

Just grabbing PoE as an example all the time is tiring when it feels like people need to have something to compare it to. Just leave it be its own thing sometimes, you know some devs come up with new approaches

[Chatterbox]

Just an idea, when CoF hunts prophecies and gets ”objectives” from that. It would be cool if Merchants guild gets objectives from players.

Like player could add request for an item and people could get like mini task for it.

And when they take this task they could get boost for crafting or drop rate IF these tasks seems take forever etc. >

And when they complete this task they get Favor / Reputation or some sort of reward.

Overall i’m excited to try both, starting with CoF

[Jerle]

@Llama8

Trade is guaranteed (if you can afford it).

I cannot stress enough that implicit in this statement is that there is a ready and healthy supply. And I don’t think that is necessarily true, particularly given the restrictions in MG.

[DuckWho]

I mean look at it from opposite side and tell me what is so wrong with having lenses with different tiers and having lower tiers of all kind enabled early then? Happy to read your explanation to that.

Personally I don’t see any reason. It is just gating something desirable behind a guild tier so players would have a progression with these mechanics. I truly cannot see the design perspective why a lens blocking activity type is behind tier 3. Why blocking high corruption is behind tier 5. Why do we get rarity only on tier 5? Instead of simply having them but with lower numbers from the start. Do explain.

Also prophecies are pretty much gambling with your favor unless favor comes in abundance. It is not free. You still need to do something else to get favor to maybe luckily roll for a prophecy that gives what you want. And as if this is not enough, now first you need to grind for the rank you need. It is just friction for the sake of progression.

Also don’t be so triggered hearing PoE. I am not comparing specifics, I am just talking about a general perspective about content customization and progression. If you prefer, I can give Lost Ark examples just for you next time cause Lost Ark also has some weird gating like this.

[DuckWho]

@Tremaparagon

I don’t see how this update is adding barriers to progression. Both factions only speed up your gains. Progressing within a faction only improves your search that much more compared to what we already have.

Not sure if you understood what I wrote as I don’t talk about barrier to progression. I talk about having customization gate behind higher progression. I specifically said it can be enabled early on with lower tiers. So I am not asking for MOAR stuff. I am only asking for more customization. Something can be improvement to what we have, doesn’t make it the best approach.

Regardless my feedback is to devs. Up to them to care about it or not. I am not here to argue every opposing opinion.

[Heavy]

@DuckWho

I mean look at it from opposite side and tell me what is so wrong with having lenses with different tiers and having lower tiers of all kind enabled early then? Happy to read your explanation to that.

Having specific bonuses or mechanics being avaialble very early on and then growing stronger takes away a lot of the excitment of unlocking specific things. If you have these tiered things, so that you have some low level version of somethign early on it takes a lot away from a milestone achievement.

@DuckWho

Personally I don’t see any reason. It is just gating something desirable behind a guild tier so players would have a progression with these mechanics. I truly cannot see the design perspective why a lens blocking activity type is behind tier 3. Why blocking high corruption is behind tier 5. Why do we get rarity only on tier 5? Instead of simply having them but with lower numbers from the start. Do explain.

We don’t know anything about the Progression Pacing yet and you already critizie specific things being behind specific tiers.
Maybe Tier 3 is already unlocked so early you didn’t even hutn for specific prophecies yet.

@DuckWho

Also prophecies are pretty much gambling with your favor unless favor comes in abundance. It is not free. You still need to do something else to get favor to maybe luckily roll for a prophecy that gives what you want. And as if this is not enough, now first you need to grind for the rank you need. It is just friction for the sake of progression.

Its additional rewards on top of stuff that you would normally do anything, unless there are very specific prophecies that grant guaranteed rewards that would encourage you to do content you would normally avoid.

It is not friction for the sake of progression. Its soem cool loot on top of what you do in a loot driven ARPG anyway: Slay Monsters.

@DuckWho

Also don’t be so triggered hearing PoE. I am not comparing specifics, I am just talking about a general perspective about content customization and progression. If you prefer, I can give Lost Ark examples just for you next time cause Lost Ark also has some weird gating like this.

You did compare a specific aspect but anyway.
I am not really triggered, but just frustrated how many people compare some of these new things to PoE equivalents. This is not specifically you, but I really hate if people bring up the term SSF when describing CoF, that is NOT what it is… AT ALL.

SSF or even SAF (Solo Account Found) are game modes that are also available on top of these factions.

Sometimes I just wish people would lay back and say:“Hey that is actually a good idea, I wonder why PoE didn’t do something like that” Or just generally being a bit more open with new things and not trying to compare them all the time.

[DenisTRUFFAUT]

Things that:

• break the game
• create new builds
• unseen elsewhere
• are exclusive to one faction

Stupid ideas

• Exclusive skill nodes, items or properties to one or the other league
• Circle of Fortune: Everything that is based on chance / roll
• Circle of Fortune: On loot, X% chance to roll +1 on
  • +Y to Skill Z (create new builds)
  • +Y to All Skills (create new builds)
• Circle of Fortune: On loot, X% chance to roll an ambidextry property that allows wielding in any hand (one-handed items only)
  • Enables crazy dual wielding anything (create new builds)
  • Double shield https://diablo-proposals.web.app/#_double-shield
• Merchant’s Guild: Scarce loot and gold
• Merchant’s Guild: Druid can transform into a Bull (create new builds)
• Merchant’s Guild: Themed nodes (“Libra’s blessing”, “Caravanserai”, “Black Friday”, “Stock Market”, “Bull Market”, “Bear Market”, “Compound Interests”, “Limited Liable Company”, “Trust”, …etc.), and traps to avoid (Property Tax, Sales Tax, Income Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax…etc.), offering enough fantasy and cool anti-monotony mechanics, might be enough to appeal players to try this mode. The Merchant’s Guild should be bolder, flavored and literally teach players how to do business. #SeriousGame.
• Merchant’s Guild: The “Trust” node avoids to lose too much money when a character dies. The money is global (Intergenerational wealth). Otherwise without this node, money is per character, and 50% of the money is taken by the State when character dies (Inheritance Tax)
• Merchant’s Guild: A ranking of richest people in the world, continent, country, state, city (since inception, 5 Years, 1 Year, 6 Months, 1 Month, 7 days, 1 day) : It is all about wealth generation and who has the biggest money count

[doombybbr]

@Llama8

But CoF is supposed to be all about rng. If you made it deterministic (such as a prophecy that dropped a specific unique) that would make it like the trade faction but not requiring gold or other people. Or rng (which is the entire theme of the faction).

what you do not understand is that trade can get ULTRA SPECIFIC items, it can just BUY an OMNIS, which makes it by far more powerful than CoF could ever be if CoF doesn’t have abilities to skip the RNG.

Everything CoF can get can be obtained via trade, so CoF needs to be VERY GOOD at target finding in order to compete.

[Nalaar]

I do not suggest the same amount, just a bit of flavour for MG. Just something unique that will make rewards less boring. And compensate it with extra stuff for CoF.

[Gilavar]

@DenisTRUFFAUT

Stupid ideas

imo gating game content behind faction choice is not a good idea. So if I chose MG why I can’t go dual-shield (just an example)?

[DenisTRUFFAUT]

Because, as the names imply:

• Circle of Fortune is all about extraordinary chance, something that should not normally happen. Literally emboying the luck of Gladstone Gander.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladstone_Gander

• Merchant’s Guild is all about accumulating wealth. Literally emboying the wealth generation mechanisms of Uncle Scrooge
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Scrooge

–

Different Factions, different goals, different mechanisms.
There is no point to have the same value proposal in the both factions.
They must be differentiable at first glance.

[Gilavar]

@DenisTRUFFAUT

They must be differentiable at the first glance.

who said? The only difference is how you aquire items (trade vs no-trade). If I chose a faction I make a decision how I like to get my gear in LE. If I like to dual-shield but also want to be able to trade that would not be possible for me.