Welcome to the community! It’s usually not as heated as right now.
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People choose this as a hill to die on because it’s the most important one for them. Kind of a silly post tbh but ppl will love you because you aren’t angry about trade.
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Maybe they chose this as the hill to die on, because over a year’s worth of resources was dumped into multiplayer, instead of balance, content or releasing the remaining classes? People were hoping MP would offer them something they were looking forward to (not everyone is excited about the group-play aspect…and are now forced into it if they want to get anything out of MP), and we get a steaming pile of bastardized D3 trade instead.
Then, the White Knights come running in, with their “nothing to see here, you should have expected this”, “trade ruins everything it touches” and “if there’s trade, no one will play the game” nonsense, which just further adds fuel to the fire.
They had to rebalance a lot because of the addition of MP, so there is the probability, that meta is going to change, and are also releasing new, higher fidelity assets, which will probably improve game feel overall too. They’re also doing a big optimization pass in 0.9.
But given how you talk about “white knights”, I doubt you’re interested in facts and just want to be angry.
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Yes, they had to balance because of MP, but that’s part of what I said. I’m sorry your blind devotion is getting in the way of your reading comprehension…it’s still resources diverted/consumed by MP. And, now, with this decision on trade (a term used very loosely now), the only way to get anything out of MP is to take on content in a group. Not everybody wants to group with other people, or even likes other people…
I’m not angry at EHG, disappointed, sure… because I was really looking forward to the game I supported at the beginning. You can continue in your attempt to devalue concerns to just being angry, or whatever, all you like. I couldn’t care less. I’m pretty much done with this game unless MP is changed to be something I can get value out of, without having to be forced to tackle content in a group setting.
Well put and very articulate @CaiusMartius! The main thread is 80% hyperbole and the rest is people void of empathy for those angered by the decision. Even though I dont trade, its a bad look for EHG, but ultimately everything is going to be ok. I will say it again, it was a learning moment for EHG,. Next time something huge is in the pipeline, DO NOT endlessly talk about said mechanic unless you have something functional in the works.
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I will just ignore the childish insults, but I hope you do realise, that they’re not maintaining two versions of the game and all rebalancing done due to the addition of MP will also affect solo gameplay. Hence, every player will be affected by it and it is not dev time “stolen”.
This is definitely a user issue though. Some people have even claimed that “MP was just code for trade, and they lied” because majority of ARPG players do play solo. Hell I play solo most of hte time and dont like trade.
So I can agree, it def does suck to have basically a year of content drought for what amounts to something most of us will only use sometimes. I have a group to play with, but I will most likely spend lots of time playing alone anyways.
I think its a problem on both ends of players expecting something that was not intended(MP does not mean trade from a dev stand point, simply what it is on a basic level, which is group play.) And the devs not iterating and making sure people knew that MP was not a patch with trading, but was jut a simple co-op mode. Mike did mention from time to time iirc that trade wasnt planned for 0.9, that they were still iterating on it. But I dont think players should have to watch streams or even more weird, poe streamers like zizs interview to get all their news.
They need to do better on keeping us in the loop on whats going on in devland.
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So because of poor planning they had to rebalance the game (they havent btw at all) and releasing new assets (which is what you do for unfinished games im pretty sure) oh and an optimisation pass… wow I feel that completely compensates the trade issue, not just core issues being held to random now
You are basically saying ‘yeah trade isnt going happen but the game will get optimised, stfu idiots’ while wearing a Bastion of EHG that gives copium on block, oh wait you never actually FOUND one of them, and you wont be able to ever trade for it…
Starting to notice you dont really have much if any experience with PoE huh? HH and mageblood makes builds work which would not normally? HH is just fun for mapping, Ive made builds for 20c that could handle t16s, so thats just blatant bs. Lemme know when someone takes down the ubers only because the almighty HH allowed it to happen!
Mageblood doesnt makes builds either, it just as hugest qol buff that PoE can offer, complete automation with a large amount of flask effect added on top. Your cleave build is not going to magically become good because of it.
There are plenty of great chase items now, the above 2 are just the most talked about. Saying they just be deleted is just nonsense, just like anything else, dont use them if you dont like them. Strongly inclined to say you have never used either so its a moot point.
First of all, I never said or insinuated people to “stfu” or called them “idiots”.
I only wanted to clarify, that developing MP wasn’t the only thing they did over the past year, which is the truth. Whether or not you think it compensates the trade “issue” for you is something only you can decide. I suppose it will not and that is fine. I don’t doubt you’ll now tell me, that you won’t play 1.0, but I hope you’ll find satisfaction in that update, if you do decide to play it.
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You aren’t forced to play MP and if EHG stays true to things said in the past there won’t be a big difference in loot rates if you compare solo to group play.
Everyone is talking about white knights this way because white knights are batshit crazy and didn’t even realize it.
And this will go on. When more people play MP things will get out of hand ultra fast and classes and skills will be balanced arround MP and interactions with other skills/classes. Then again this is and always was and will forever be the biggest part of work in a MP game.
Best at times when they are available and not about to vanish from existence for some days/weeks ^^.
That’s a fair point to some extend… if you plan a MP game and don’t work on it with MP from the getgo you’ll have a troubblesome time implementing MP what lloks like bad planning and a waste of workhours.
It’s the good old facts vs feelings debate… don’t go there because some people will take emotional dmg if you tell them something blue is blue and they don’t want the blue thing to be blue.
Then again people who look for a compromise or like trade are pretty pissed about the answers they get again and again and again that make it obvious the Tradxit party won’t change or is even open for a healthy discussion while following their path to their promised land 
.
I have misshandled the topic on my part and I’m the first to admit it but I got it handled and now I’m looking for an outcome that helps the playerbase and EHG with a few others and then there are a ton of people who simply seem to see the world burn ^^.
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I mean, that they even use the term. It is destructive to any discussion.
They’re getting the same answers again and again, because while I respect their opinion, there is precedent of the downsides of free trading and it’s effects on overall drop rate balance, which is exactly why EHG decided to go the route they’re currently going and, IMO, sufficiently explained in their Dev Blog.
Maybe there will be a form of trade in the future, that allows limited trading without having an effect on the drop rate balancing, but finding and trying these things takes time. Nothing wrong with brainstorming, but I often feel like people post their ideas and think that they have completely solved the problem, which might even be true in theory, more often than not when trying the theory it then falls apart in practice.
Where the problem starts to shine through is when people’s principles about gameplay come in. Pro-traders (probably majority non-self-found players) probably look at the possible problems and say: “so what, trade fixes low drop rates anyway. it is not an issue.”, while anti-traders (probably majority self-found players) say: “no, trade is what will create these problems in the first place. it is a major issue.”
When looking at these stances and how deeply anchored they are in principles, I just find it hard to even see a hypothetical compromise, that would make both camps happy. Which probably why these discussions always devolve like they do.
What we probably could do is try to appease both camps by doing free trade and keeping drop rates self-found friendly, but then the economy will be done in by oversupply from the get go a few weeks into a cycle/league/season.
Another thing I often read is that no one is forced to trade in this scenario, which is true in principle, but a game system never exists in a vacuum and items being available in trade en masse, will likely have an effect on all players having their feelings of actually dropping items diminished. Could have always just bought it.
In conclusion, the discussion isn’t even really about trade or no trade. It is about the fundamental question what this game is supposed to be in the first place, because the introduction of trade would have extreme effects on all facets of the game, even for those, who elect to never trade themselves. Especially if the developers refused to balance around it, because it intrinsically changes the value of item drops. But if they balanced around trade, it would make the game harder to play in a self-found fashion. In the end, it would have a big effect, that can’t be downplayed and it probably runs antithetical to EHG’s vision of LE.
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There have been a lot of ideas arround that don’t need to change ssf/normal droprates while having a trade system with some restrictions.
The timeline of trade in EHG is a terrible story if you look at it:
- Kickstarter - Trade system with restrictions free trade with friends
- Bazar Thread - EHG invites everyone to their vision of the bazar
- After Bazar thread - No trade at all
- After the no trade at all part - We work on trade
- Working on trade - results in crappy gifting system
- Announcing gifting system - resulting in controversial debate
- Devs are radiosilent and thought it will be a good idea to drop this bomb
No matter how you look at it the big effect already is here and things are a bit of a mess.
And like I have said in my reply, these might be sound in theory, but we don’t know how exploit-proof they are in practice. This is something to be tested in the future, if EHG decides to do that. Everything depends on them.
In the community? Seems like it, sure, but I was talking about the game and the fundamental questions about it.
Communication could be better tho, I agree.
HH and Mageblood take over as pinnacle chase items but there is plenty of items that are expensive and are relatively ‘chase’ items that are necessary for your build that cost multiple divines - short list:
Unique Flasks / Cluster Jewels / Synthesis bases / Well rolled rares / Rare combo of influenced mods on rares / Unique helmets with expensive helmet enchants / Unique jewels / Alt quality Gems
All of these are chase, you think the average person gets even 1/10 of a Mageblood currency? get real.
For the real lucky players who are extremely poor ingame its actually more economically advantageous to find a Mageblood and sell it to fund multiple other builds instead of having a shit tier build with 100% flask uptime
Ive used Mageblood on 2 characters, fantastic item but personally its extremely expensive and unless you just casually save 150-220 divines playing you can make multiple top tier builds for the price and have a lot of fun playing builds you actually feel like not what the games horrible seed based rng decides for you
Ive played SSF multiple times at my own choice in PoE and ultimately its a horrible experience overall, I played Grim Dawn for over 2k hours and theres many Legendaries ive never seen that apparently ‘arent that rare’
You know how the devs developed the game/content vis-a-vis MP don’t you?
Yes, but then they get complaints about not talking to the community, “is this gaem daed?”, etc. They’re damned if they do & damned if they don’t. Plus they don’t get any feedback from the community that can be used to guide the direction they’re headed in.
Not sure I’ve seen anyone say that…
But then they get #### on when a thing they’re working on doesn’t pan out & has to be dropped.
They have, you just can’t see it 'cause it’s not on Live.
No, they just like using pejoratives that are more socially acceptable than calling someone a ####. It’s a way of “othering” someone who’s defending a thing so you can just ignore what they’re saying & feel good about it.
I’m not sure that’s actually true. Given they’ve spent an entire year focussing solely on getting MP in & working (on top of however much they’d done on it before), I’m not sure. But balance is a big & time-consuming thing, certainly.
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Yeah but it’s an ongoing problem and if LE lasts at least for two years the biggest workload might be balancing everything. If you keep in mind the 3 masteries that come with 1.0 I think the balancing department has to go into overdrive :D.
I’m not 100% sure about this because even in the most civil and fact based discussion about something there are people who can see the not so good parts about something they love and defend it without any valid reasoning or facts. These are white knights from my point of view and white knights are on a far lower level to me then someone I call a ####.
The problem in the whole ““attacking” X while someone is “defending” X” thing is sooner or later someone feels personaly attacked and is starting to try and dimish the facts someone brings up with pejoratives (need to put this in my grammer asap ^^).
I cannot provide dev quotes since obviously it has been quite long now but the game was always seen as PoE alternative (seen is the keyword), while it is only a Grim Dawn alternative minus the modding Grim Dawn has. That is the main issue. And I am not talking about the amount of content or anything. It is gonna be a game designed for solo that allows Coop, and for whatever reason they are having their own servers, while it was mainly thought as an online game around the community during its first year.
It is hard to pick who to blame for this perception but devs certainly didn’t help it going around PoE communities talking how they were inspired, what they think should be different and all that jazz.
So are the Doom and Gloomers.
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