I’m running a build without a teleport ability and it’s practically impossible to get out of most AoE high-damage abilities.
The first time I fought the Lightless arbor boss I was instakilled by an AoE so big I could not travel half of it before it hit me. I had 20% increased movement speed but it was absolutely not of any help.
Pretty much all the AoEs behave like this though, without a teleport you are just constantly running and unable to fight at all, just firing an attack here and there.
I simply think telegraphs should last longer.
Another unavoidable damage is from any enemy that jumps on you. They apparently can’t be killed during the jump animation so you are forced to take the damage. For any range character this is a death sentence depending on how many enemies are jumping on you.
Having a movement skill does make certain encounters easier depending on the build but its not always neccessary.
Boss fights are a special instance as there are ways to get around this “get out of Dodge” issue simply by positional play and learning the fights. Even fights like The Emperor of Corpses (dragon boss) can be done with a decent pair of boots and no movement skill - its a little tedious to be sure, but not impossible with a little preemptive posititioning.
This issue is critical for Dungeon bosses - no matter your build - because the devs have designed the fights with attacks that cannot usually be tanked and WILL one shot you. There are some guides to these that imho, can make the Dungeon boss fights trivial with a little practise.
As for jumping damage, I havent really experienced this particular issue - I dont recall a jumping attack I cannot move away from. but yes, killing mid jump is an issue right now.
Usually the telegraphed attacks in normal mob fights are easy to move away from without movement skills - e.g. embermages nukes or lightning elementals blasts. Perhaps the particular jumping mob is highlighting a deficiency in your build / defences rather than being too powerful?
I accept this, sure, as long as the time given to the player is enough for both repositioning AND attacking.
If I have to stop attacking to get out of the way, a corresponding amount of time has to be given as a reward for fulfilling the mechanic.
In the Lightless boss instance I mentioned was my first time fighting it, I saw there was something that could be attacked at the side of the arena so I went there, and a huge AoE appeared that blocked me because on one side there’s a wall and on the other side the one-shot AoE…
That’s not my experience at all. Most jump attacks begin from out of screen so there’s no walking away form them.
If on the other hand I’m attacking the enemies and they start the jump before my attack has reached them, they block my attack and hit me while I’m stuck in the attack animation.
The jumping attack is not a problem when it’s one enemy or just a group of them, but when there are 4 or 5 groups of 5 enemies that jump-attack there’s little to no defense from it, particularly if the first hit stuns you.
I’m curious as what skills you’ve chosen. But broadly speaking if you’ve chosen to to take a movement skill and you therefore can’t move out of the way fast enough of a telegraphed one shot mechanic, that’s kinda on you IMO.
There’s also the situation where one goes into a dungeon boss fight without knowing the mechanics and die to one of them. I also think that’s OK in principle as that’s the game teaching you. IMO it’s OK when/if you choose to go into a boss fight blind and die to it.
The devs have said that when designing boss fights they can only assume 2 things, that you can move (ie, walk, not even that you’ve got a movement skill on your bar) and that you can do damage. So if you are correctly executing the mechanics then you should be able to walk out of everything if you know how it works, which you obviously wouldn’t on your first time in.
They generally don’t on a 1440 screen and shouldn’t on a 1080 screen. There were issues with Embermages where they would be able to be aggroed from off screen and would then start casting their big nuke (that does not have a nicely visible telegraph) from off screen. If you have minions that have run ahead then it’s possible that they aggroed the mob that then decided to target you not the minions (which should only happen if it has the “targets players” modifier).
I would agree IF the movement skill was a requirement, but it is not, therefore the game must be balanced for builds without movement skills on the bar… or have the movement skill as a forced choice.
We could alternatively have a dodge mechanic separate from the movement skill.
If I am ignoring it, sure, if I’m reacting to it but there’s no way for me to avoid it without a movement skill it’s kind of cheap.
In open spaces that rule might be true.
There are arenas that limit movement too much, though.
I expected that Lagon was the only one given how bad it is, finding another one at the end of a dungeon was quite a bad surprise.
Even with movement skills Lagon is 80% dodging and 20% fighting. IMHO a very bad encounter.
I was a quite unclear.
I don’t mean that the jump starts offscreen, but if you’re using ranged abilities you will inevitably aggro things offscreen that will jump you a fraction of a second after you’re able to see them.
That would not be a problem if we could counteract that by killing them before they hit us, but as far as my experience go, they won’t take damage during the animation, only after they landed.
This used to also be a problem in Diablo 3 so I get how they have incurred in it too, I’m pointing out that some kind of counter to that attack should exist.
That’s the Matriarch, she’s a boss and can only jump from on screen.
It is a requirement because it makes getting out of telegraph’s so much easier. IMO, that’s what makes it a requirement.
Yeah, this gets raised from time to time, or a 6th slot that can only be used for a movement skill, but that’s usually only because people want to prioritise dps skills and don’t realise the importance of movement or defensive skills.
The mechanic you died to was that you needed to destroy the barrier and hide in the alcove.
That depends, IMO if you cant take a few hits and have to spend that much time dodging your character is too squishy. If you can take the hits from the waves then you can spend a lot more time dpsing.
There was no electrical circle, just a physical attack. I also encountered them multiple times in the map, so it cannot be a boss.
But you see, those are not a problem because there was only 1 of them per group of enemies, so it didn’t matter that I got attacked once with an out-of-screen attack.
Yep, this is what I meant with “requirement”: something the game forces me to choose.
I have a defensive skills and a mana generating skill, the rest are DPS skills, it just does not make sense for me to have a movement skill because I’m running a minion build and I need to be somewhat near them or they’ll run around doing each its own thing and getting killed while being inefficient.
I’m not even talking about the monolith battle, even just the story one is a game of whak-a-mole, for a melee character it’s pretty much a facetank until the eye beam, for a ranged one is constant repositioning, for a minion build is constant repositioning of both yourself and the minions.
When I did it with a mage it was shoot-shoot-teleport-get mana-shoot-teleport…
That’s entirely dependent on the squishyness of your character. You could have a squishy melee that needs to constantly reposition to not get nuked by the waves or a tanky ranged character who can favetank everything but the eye beam. Minion builds are a bit “special” (and not in a good way) with Lagon due to his hitbox. Proc builds will also have issues as the game uses the base of the model to determine range and his is waaaaaaaaay downstairs so is always considered out of range…
Then you’re talking about a different mob (which is fine) to the one CaiusMartius mentioned since he specified the lightning circle which is only used by the boss not any other variant.
Minion AI is, IMO, still a bit of an issue.
Yeah, that’s your choice though to forgo a movement skill. The upside is that it allows you more other skills, the downside is that you’ll find it less easy to move out of the way of telegraphs. That said, from memory, what killed you was probably arena wide so you wouldn’t have been able to move out of the way and you should have hidden in the alcove.
Yep, that’s ok, my issue is that the game is full of areas of denial for both small and huge attacks.
This makes it impossible to distinguish the one-shots from the negligible attacks.
When every attack is a telegraph, how can you tell which telegraph is important and which is not?
Even outside of bosses, any map is a constant barrage of effects and it’s impossible to get out of the way of everyone of those. Then you happen to get into one of the effects that you end up finding out was a one-shot mechanic hidden among all the minor ones.
This is probably the source of my issues: when everything has the potential to be a oneshot, I need to avoid everything in order to avoid that one bad thing.
You might say that with experience I will learn which ones are to avoid and which ones are not, I say it should be the game design to tell me that.
I saw the “bad telegraph attacks” thread and I can’t follow it since it uses the correct name for every enemy and I don’t know any of those, but it seems there is already a long standing issue with those.
Yeah, part of that is knowledge that will come with time as part of the learning process. Learning which boss attacks your character can facetank and which they can’t. The majority of the ones you see not-in-boss-fights are trivial & you quickly learn the ones that aren’t such as avalanches, Ospryx smites, Soul Cage breath attacks, etc.
It does. IMO LE isn’t a pixel soup of graphical effects like PoE is or can be and LE does do a reasonable job of telling me which attacks need to be avoided because they’re intended to one shot you.
