That is a core element of hack and slash games. Kill more stuff to get better loot. Better loot makes you kill stuff faster. Faster kills translate to more loot and better loot over time. All games in the genre have at least some kind of tooltip dps that is accurate. Le has nothing but some dummies. They implemented storage space for gold because this is something they thing should be baseline but stuff that should be baseline like seeing the dmg you do in an instant isn’t there. On top of it I play builds with so many dmg numbers I have a hard time to tell what dmg comes from what source outside of the big bonk dmg I deal from time to time. It’s just terrible design and I completely understand the peoples need of a dps overview to improve their game.
Personaly I think something like this would help me a lot but it’s not the end of the world if it’s not there. It’s just another swing and a miss from EHG to hold valuable inforamtions back from players.
This is a fair point and I agree with this. I hope they fix this soon.
To be fair, I don’t personally have an issue with this. I don’t really care about it. I tried the addon for GD and never really looked at it again because I don’t care about that. I just want to have fun playing.
But it is also a fair point that having a DPS meter does shift the mentality of players from “Is this fun” to “Can this get to X DPS”, which I feel is the reason ARPGs don’t actually do this. With a DPS meter you’ll get plenty of players that were having fun suddenly frustrated because their build does X less damage than whatever other build.
I see the problems with this because with accurate numbers you can start to do matematicly accurate builds and everything else is completely unintresting for a lot of players. This makes metas even more shallow and crates guide zombies who can’t think for themselfs and most likely don’t understand the core mchanics the build is working with.
I see this (slightly exaggerated from my part) problem but to me personaly the benefits are outweighing the issues I have with it. For example the way I play a Bleedlock is most likely a stupid way to play it and I have to do a ton of number tweaking. So mathematics and I is a story of never ending misunderstandings and beeing able to see what points do when I changed them is a big win for a donky like myself.
Yes, I do understand your point of view. And I’m not saying a DPS meter is bad for everyone. Maybe it isn’t even bad for most people. After all, if you had fun playing something and you stop having fun because someone makes more damage than you (or you deleted your character because a youtube creator has more ward than you), that seems like a personal issue and not a game one.
But that mentality shift is something that game devs have to consider.
You know when a raidleader tells you “Mate you only do 50% of the dps of Klaus so we take Klaus on our raid because we want to progress!” then this is toxic by todays standart even if said “mate” backstabbs 9 other raiders by underperforming in the field he should be best in.
It does and it was explained above. Ward overperforming already increased toxicity. And if you can show that build A does X more damage than build B, you’ll have the same thing all over again. The problem is that when some people see other builds performing better, they march to the forums/reddit/discord and act entitled/insultingly about it.
It’s not an issue of tool itself, it’s that some people will use that in a toxic way.
That’s not toxic that’s common sense and also is saving the entire raid from wasting their time because the leader wants to be kind to a slacker. To save the feelings of one player, all the others in the raid must spend the entire evening wiping. Yeah, I’d leave that guild immediately.
(Yes I was main tank in a massive WoW guild that was in “server first kill” running for bosses. For many years. You have to earn your place in the raid, that’s how it works. Not remotely toxic. If you join a serious raiding guild, you know what you are getting into).
Anyway, what harm is there if only the player can see his own dps?
99% of the playerbase would welcome a dps meter, and would use it for ONE purpose. To check if some weapon or item (or maybe skill or passive adjustment) was better for damage than what they currently have. That’s it. Thinking past that is ridiculously paranoid.
The fact there is no such meter is a huge loss for the game. It’s embarrassing. Especially since the DPS readout we do have for our skills is typically WRONG and is going to cause players to make bad decisons with both gear and build.
So 99% of the playerbase are deprived of a really useful tool just because 1% might be toxic. That’s such a bad way to approach your game design.
But I guess it is the EHG way to be so paranoid that the players suffer, just look at the trading systems and how the players in general are receiving them. Hint: they are generally despised.
Oh come on ^^. The community started to went downhill when the game got more exposure. As soon as more people come to one place it starts to get toxic because there are simply toxic people out there.
The game is somewhat new for a lot of people and they don’t understand it properly for the most part and are simply mad how something that is bugged or broken could even make it into the game.
The least ammount of real toxic behaviour comes from people arguing about an ingame systems but as reaction to how they are treated or misstreated on this forum. Sure some people are more thing skinned then others and fire back drasticly but we have some people arround here who try their best to act like absolut douches.
That’s why I picked this example because EVERYONE should understand it ^^.
Yes.
Well I don’t think the meter is the problem but the tooltips are. In every other slightly modern hack and slay game I had obvious indicators if my dmg went up or not. In LE I have a tooltip that tells me I maybe do this ammount of dmg when the stars align. That’s the main issue. If I had an accurate tooltip and could see adding 1 point attunement offers me 21 more dps and 2 mana and a point of strength offers me 47 more dps and 19 more armor I wouldn’t think twice what to pick ^^.
this is a message for ALL people who think dps meter = toxic community. In fact its not, we just have toxic and overall bad people in the world, DPS meter is just stimulating them, thats it.
Now the most important thing, if we dont have dps meter or some kind of damage log there is ZERO, Im repeating ZERO point in having any stats in the game, AFFIXES PREFIXES SUFFIXES, DAMAGE, DEF, RES, STUN and all others. If we cant understand 95-100% what those stat numbers actually do there is again ZERO point of having them.
We can just remove everything from the game leaving just “Sword of the Fire”(example) which we will wear and kill mobs which doesnt have even health bar…
Min-maxers of the world unite - and rise up against this guy.
More seriously, I think people playing the game would still like to know for sure which weapon they have is the best. Is that too much to ask? Like I said, the fact we cannot even determine this simplest of things in a loot-based game is just embarrassing.
I would say that he is right. Its not a profession but if we have some stats and numbers to play and have fun with, we need to do it. In order to have fun of that part of the game we need to understand it first, that where DPS log will be handy
I think we need a log especially for minions, it’s hard to theorycraft when you have no idea if a buff is being added to your minion or not or what % of it’s damage is Cold, or Physicial, or Necrotic.
I personally am very skeptical with primalists ‘stackable’ buffs actually stacking on minions.
They say they don’t want path of building-like tools for the game but for that to be the case the game needs to provide all the ‘relevant info’ to test and improve your builds and, as is right now, the game provides way too little even for casual build-crafting.
You don’t need a DPS meter for this, though. What you need is more accurate information on the skill tooltip and on your character screen. The fact that it isn’t working right now is the problem. Because if the tooltips/character info work as they should, then you could easily evaluate if a weapon change is better or not.
There are tons of cases like this where accurate dps tool-tipping is impossible because the damage depends on the circumstances of the actual hit. Only a dummy with a dps meter solves this I think.
