I want to address the what Mike said on the Town Portal podcast, since he asked for suggestions if we had any ideas for solving this problem. I’m starting a new topic since it didn’t feel like it would fit in the other one.
There’s possibly a simple solution to the problem of feeling like uniques are ‘wasted’ by not picking them up, but not wanting the player to pick up all of them to disassemble because it would be too tedious.
It comes from a different game, but I think it could be adapted to solve this problem in a way that would fit Last Epoch: In Tales of Maj’eyal, when you leave an area all items on the ground are automatically sold for their gold value, unless you pick them up or choose in a pop-up when leaving to keep them when leaving.
My suggestion would be that for every unique that is left on the ground when leaving an instance, you atuomatically get some sort of ‘salvage’ value. It could even be plugged to a faction progression bar, since it’s meant to be a solution for more of the end game side of things. That way, even when leaving uniques behind, you’ll still feel like you’re getting something out of it.
That’s all, it should be able to plug into any sort of system that you had come up for unique disassemblement or salvaging, since you had mentioned that you had already come up with some ideas. Hopefully it helps or at least it’s an interesting idea
What if the solution to salvage uniques required a new kind of rune?
This rune would be the limiter to how much salvageable stuff you want to take from the ground.
You use the rune + 1 unique + the same unique with the same amount of LP => The second one is destroyed, and you have 1% chance of rerolling one of the unique’s affixes to a higher value within its range, or increasing the LP by one up to the highest value. Could be one rune for the affix range, and another one for the LP range. You could have another rune to apply to Weaver’s Will, in both cases you shouldn’t be able to combine Weaver’s Will and LP.
I was completely baffled by Mike saying, “we don’t want to add tedium” (in regard to having to pick up and break down trash uniques) in a game where the player has to click to pick up shards. I simply cannot reconcile those two things in my head. I must mentally be playing a different game than the EHG designers.
The answer to, “long term players with billions of gold will just buy up all the lower level uniques”, problem kind of missed the fact that long term players were given a massive leg up in the Market. But whatever, I’m a long term player I should be happy about that… except this is a Legacy-only problem, so I’m also kind of scratching my head, because if you are playing Legacy, don’t you already have all the uniques you need? I think this was WAY overstated as a problem.
I do think that having gold be the way to buy from the market place is a mistake. Should be switched to favor/some other currency, which would close out this issue, and some of the RMT issue (probably generate other issues, sure). but I play CoF, so I should probably just keep my mouth shut.
Yes, natural limiters like that are a good solution, hence enforcing a specific rate which is lower then the actual drop-rate of uniques.
The issue stems from MG interactions derived from Mike, hence adjusting the rune rate towards basic unique drop-rate is the way to go there.
Absolutely, the issue is massively overstated.
Currently we have around 95% of uniques which are ‘worthless’ for us to pick up, either because they don’t fit any character we intend to build, the LP is too low and we got something better or the rolls on it are low. Even providing the option to salvage 50% of the overall dropped uniques wouldn’t affect the market.
The market is self-regulating to a degree, we already don’t see people putting their uniques in, not only does it cost a lot of favor but it also has a low price-tag because of the overabundance we see for them. This only changes with high LP and hence is not salvage material anyway.
So… the argument that it would affect MG as someone who has a really… reaaaally close eye on the itty gritty pieces of a market seems baffling to me personally. The argument makes no sense at all in the current state of uniques and the loot filter.
The quickest ‘fix’ for the issue is allowing us to filter uniques by providing a separate menu for them to choose the minimum LP we want to see, either by individual uniques with a comprehensive list (which would be cluttered soon though) or by breaking those up into their natural drop rates (common, rare, very rare, boss-unique, rare boss-unique, very rare boss-unique, ‘special’ unique like alchemists laddle) and choosing the minimum LP for it to be shown to us.
That would solve 80% of the current issues related to uniques already. What we don’t see makes no impact to us after all, hence when something drops we can expect it to be a nice drop at least.
Generally… the loot-filter is nice! It needs a functionality overhaul though, it’s already quite decent! But… the LP filtering isn’t a ‘vanity’ thing anymore but a necessity as it causes a detrimental feeling for it to be missing. Also pre-prepared generalized filters should be a thing provided as a get-go.
Next up only providing the filter with relevant mods for pre-chosen bits. So if my base can’t have ‘affix xyz’ then it shouldn’t be shown.
Also further in the future there’s a need to have a roll-range for specific affixes - especially on uniques and idols - to be taken into consideration.
The filter still works, if EHG goes forward with increased loot drops and changes to the loot system overall it’ll loose ever more ease of usage… and that was already mediocre, better then ‘no QoL GGG’ but definitely… that can be done better.
You’re playing CoF and nonetheless hit the nail on the head 100%
This is the most important change to exist. Gold is already tied to mechanics. Any change to gold de-values those other mechanics (Lightless Arbour for example) and hence stays in direct conflict. MG needs to be detached from gold, 100%.
Kinda happy that Tales of Maj’eyal was brought up as that’s an amazing game. Just thought I would say that here lol I like your idea though. Think it could be interesting.
I would suggest an expansion of the loot filter with an “Auto pick up” option, so that any items, marked with a loot filter are auto picked-up and transferred to inventory or stash. This way, you can decide for yourself, which items (uniques and others) to auto pick.
I would also like to suggest showing items {or item hints) in stash/inventory, according to set loot filter colors.
This is soo important for the filter that I wanted to highlight it.
We already agreed on that, but I want to add that I as a CoF-player also suffer from gold being used for MG → any balance changes there cause collateral damage to my ability to buy tabs or use the mentioned LA. LA is way overpriced anyway. Paying <10k for a basic chest with a few items is okay, but a million to add a rune to each chest?
I agree it would be one amazing QoL function for us as the players, albeit it’ll also cause issues.
Not all options should be put into the player’s hands, this is sadly one of those, much like difficulty sliders often can be (Dark Souls is a prime example on how a difficulty slider would change the intended feel of the game for example).
Auto-Pickup falls into the same category since the upside of it not being implemented doesn’t immediately show. The display on the ground for items to be visible without the option to walk over it and having it ‘vanish’ is a dopamine production measure for people, the ‘thrill’ of seeing ‘Nice, I dropped something good!’.
Hence this is one of the things which a dev has to put special emphasis on, providing the ‘right’ auto-pickup options, like for example… walking over gold and it vanishing right away, a ticking up resource.
Hence I’ll also say that for example affix shards should fall under that direction, walk over it, number ticks up, good enough. Rare ones on the other hand should be manually picked up, for emphasis.
For uniques this clearly means that auto-pickup overall would be a bad design choice, not only because it can cause issues with cluttered inventory you can’t get emptied out and hence lead to deaths… but also because they deserve the respective emphasis.
On the other hand… filtering them out is a very very viable and by now important measure for the game.
That on the other hand can be very interesting depending on how it’s implemented!
Thank you! I see your point and agree that excitement must remain when seeing/hearing your best items drop,
However it could still be implemented similarly to shards pick-up:
click on one shard and all shards in radius are picked up, but sent directly to mats, instead of to the inventory, where you need to open it and make an additional click to transfer them to mats (and possibly another click to sort inventory),
click on one of the “auto pick-up” filtered items and transfer all such items In radius to inventory or even directly into stash, where they should be marked as “not viewed yet”, here is where filter colouring would be really useful and appreciated. This also brings up another stash tab improvement, namely to be able to mark stash tabs with what kind of items they should receive (like one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, helmets, idols, …, and by rarity) and then on “auto pick-up” or transfering from inventory into stash place items into according tabs. Something similar to PoE stash functionality, but improved. It would also be nice to have an additional read-only tab for all auto picked-up items that won’t fit into your stash or you forgot to click, like D4. But that is probably too much for now…
I believe these two features would greatly improve our QoL.
This would only help those that use a very strict filter and all drops are stuff they want to pick up (though we’d need more filter options for that).
Most of the time I use a more loose filter so I don’t miss out on potential stuff. This means that many times there are many items close by but I just want to pick one of them up. I don’t want all of them to be picked up automatically.
As I mentioned, I don’t believe any item pickup will happen. At least not in the foreseeable future.
I would like, however, to have more filter options. For example, something I suggested before, is having the name of the filter rule (if you give it a name) show up on the item label.
Having it also apply to inventory/stash would be nice as well, since many times I pick a bunch of stuff where some is to stash in the T7 tab, others for the Slam tab, etc, and I have to drop them again to separate them.
Yes, that would be doable definitely, I agree, albeit as @DJSamhein mentioned it is definitely causing problems with anyone not using a strict filter.
So, the solution for that in my eyes is to implement a simple option for ‘area pickup’ in the loot-filter. Which is a opt-in choice there, hence by default turned off.
This would guarantee that only someone who actually makes a loot filter or the people using pre-made loot filters will get this mechanic, removing the chance for the tedium otherwise present.
Which then would for example simply not have this option turned on, hence making it not something hindering the gameplay itself while providing a nice QoL + keeping the game away from becoming a simple ‘spreadsheet’ as EHG wants to avoid.
It’s after all solely about the feeling behind it, something which is important and something which can be fine-tuned heavily, we got more then enough different games out with more then enough variety to by now know what aspects cause the enjoyable feeling and which ones don’t.
I suppose that’s the biggest obstacle, creating an endless loop of trying to pick up stuff when your inventory is full. Like 28 unique gloves at once, something that happens all the time at CoF 10.
I would like auto-pickup for resources and have an option to auto-move them into their infinite storage. We could even get pets that do that like in D3 at some point to provide monetization or prizes for achieving something.
I don’t really want auto-pickup for items, whether the aforementioned issue can be solved or not.
What I would like is a confirmation window upon exiting a zone like in the Pathfinder games. Basically when you zone out, everything that you left on the ground is shown in a separate window and you get to pick that up. Of course this can only work post-filter in LE.
Yes, I obviously wasn’t clear enough. I ment to include an “auto pick-up” option (checkbox) into each filter entry, so I can e.g. choose to auto/area pick-up unique helmets, and unique gloves with specified affixes, but not anything else.
The rest of the filtered items I can still pick up one by one if I want to.
Like I said, I doubt that is technically feasible. I’m not a coder, but I know your inventory size is too small to just pick-up all unique gloves. You can trigger prophecies for 24 at once. I guess that would create some kind of loop, where the game tries to vacuum them but can’t. Also you can’t specify affixes for uniques for they have none.
The system is already implemented though. We have a itemized pickup with a limiter to not overflow the inventory via the affixes.
So yes, it’s already technically possible. The only issue is to attach that to the filter-system, which currently has no way to combine, that might be a problem. Overall… shouldn’t be impossible to do at all.
Also not ‘all’ unique gloves, but given that LP-filtering is a necessity because of CoF (and missing currently, it was fine in 0.9 but not anymore in 1.0 and will be a negative point if not implemented in 1.1) this would hence only apply to the actually visible ones through the filter.
This isn’t what I meant. Yes, we can collect multiple shards at once, but we still have to click to do so. If that were automated, the game would click for us. And in that scenario it would click all. the. time.
Although I don’t want auto pickup for items, this is really not an issue. It’s easy enough to detect that the inventory is full and not try to autopickup.
More than that, you only try to pick up when you move, because that’s when the pickup radius changes.
D3 did this just fine: it autopicked up shards, if it was full you got an animation like you were picking them up and then falling back down. It was pretty clear that it was because it was full.
That being said, I really don’t want autopickup for items. I feel like it would take away from the game’s identity and from the fun of finding good loot drops.
It ends up being like in PoE where your filter is so strict that anything you see you immediately pick up because you know it’s good, but there’s no dopamine hit unless you see something really really rare, like a mirror or some very valuable card.
but I play CoF, so I should probably just keep my mouth shut.