Yes, and they’ve reduced that massively.
Nowadays designed from bosses are generally only leading to invulnerability during special attacks, like the ‘Exarch’ hovering in the air while loads of fireballs roll around which you have to dodge or die, or Kitava when he’s staggering or crawling back out from his hole after falling down.
The general invul phases have mostly been removed.
Eh, depends… I would argue that the current LE is worse then PoE 1.1 was. The worst outliers have been there during the beta as well (obviously) and they managed to at least get the ‘continental’ balance done by 1.0 more or less.
As mentioned before… I think LE is gradually leaving the planet with their balancing
And yes, no magical formula which is ‘one fits all’… but a bit of foresight would be nice, I know hindsight is 20/20 but some things simply baffle me…
Wraithlord has been nerved by a good 40% base damage and 40% effectiveness on top, so a good 60-70% less damage overall without taking the affixes into account… and it’s still extremely strong.
So we see that they got a lot of leeway to work inside overall, and yes… the wraithlord isn’t just outright broken anymore at least, still too strong.
Falconry though was even worse and it got 14% *less damage, half chance for debuffs, less crit… and half charges… that ‘less’ should’ve been 35% at least, it was far far too soft-handed there.
Sure, you don’t get it right each and every time, but those 2 there are the core examples of balance… you see something is really - and I mean really - off then you should look into in a bit more in-depth and make sure to test it intensively compared to other stuff.
When a developer does one-off systems like this that should otherwise be achieved by balance it always feels like to me that they are saying, “we can’t balance our game”.
To me, feels like this is a failure because it’s just pissing folks off. Does anyone like it (anyone that is reading this thread). And, to be clear, I don’t mean, “is there anyone that appreciates what EHG is trying to do”. I really do mean, “you enjoy the boss fights more now than you did before”.
I get your point, because I fall into the “I appreciate what they’re trying to do” camp. But any system, including no system, is going to piss people off.
That’s part of innovation and trying new things. Look at seasonal mechanics in PoE, can you put your hand over your heart and swear that you loved every single seasonal gimmick they tried out? What about D3/D4? Thankfully those systems weren’t permanent. But let’s look at D3s loot system and auction house. They tried to do something new to give the players a better experience than trying to spam chat to trade, it failed miserably. They then tried a few things before eventually landing on the Loot 2.0 or whatever they called it that people were happy with.
Boss Ward is in the Launch Loot phase of development, and I believe they will reach the Loot 2.0 phase.
Edit: I’d like to add that I do enjoy that leech actually feels good in boss fights now.
But to be fair… a system which is solely meant to stop people from getting the core feeling of what a hack’n’slash game is expected to provide, doing the exact opposite of what it’s supposed to do and being nothing more then a measure to basically ‘cover up’ bad balancing is definitely more prone to such outcomes
No, I played Standard instead, and their core changes were without fault always good… broken at times but good.
Starting at Shaper I’ve looked into detail at it, elder was great, uber-elder was great, the removal of the elder/shaper ping-pong was great through the conquerors. The animation rework was great (even if wobbly at the start), Maven was great, the melee rework this league is great.
I got to say… their core game implementations in general are good. Leagues? Hit or miss. But they also don’t say anything else then that being the case.
And some of the implementations into core definitely didn’t work out too well, which I’ll have to agree with fully here.
Expecting Blizzard to make something good is a high ask
Don’t you have a phone?
The auction house was a disgusting money-grab method at the beginning which then turned into a badly functioning trading method that broke so many real market aspects it was laughable. It was doomed to fail by design, they ignored everything mandatory to create a functioning market with their itemization setup to the market setup itself. It was a badly executed disaster with exactly ‘0’ invention and was due to be badmouthed.
Innovation is doing something new after at least testing out it could theoretically uphold in reality. The issue is when shoddy work which is nowhere anything new gets sold as ‘innovative’.
This ward mechanic is innovative in so far that it tries to fix a problem which has had a solution since basically forever.
It’s innovative… but it’s also really bad design.
Not to speak of that innovation not even passing planning stage commonly as it does provide the opposite of the intention even on paper with simple math.
That’s just… bad work. It’s like a carpenter putting a door at the end of stairs which swing towards the stairs. It’s awful, you should’ve realized it’s awful at first sight and not even attempted to do it.
Boss Ward has nothing to do with loot.
Loot 2.0 would be nice.
Boss Ward though is a separate thing and is just useless.
Yeah, I’m happy they solved a design issue which had a very easy solution already available on paper (you know, making leech be based on pre-mitigated damage? The simple thing?) already available to instead turn it on its head to screw everyone over which you didn’t want to screw over and instead prefer the characters which it was supposed to hinder.
Good job!
Which facts?
His fact has the same direction as stating the following: ‘Since 100% of humans consume H2O and time has a 100% fatality rate this means that H2O leads to 100% fatality’.
Step 1 and 2 are right, step 3 is a wrong conclusion simply.
If a high-dps character is hindered by a 60% loss in time and a low dps character is hindered by a 10% loss in time that doesn’t mean that it prefers low dps characters.
Why?
Because if you compare it then a 5 second fight which takes 60% longer is a 8 second fight.
But if you take a 3 minute fight and make it 10% longer then it becomes a 3 minute 18 seconds fight.
Which means the low dps build lost 15 seconds more then the high dps build.
I was comparing boss ward to the state of loot in D3 at launch. Then said I believe they’ll reach the Loot 2.0 phase meaning that it will be reworked in a way that does what the devs wanted and the players are happy with.
I’m not going to keep going back and forth with you on subjective issues. You don’t like Boss Ward because it doesn’t fit your narrative of what makes hack’n’slash fun for you. That’s perfectly fine and I encourage you to keep sharing your feedback, that’s how games improve.
I disagree with you though as I’ve always hated boss fights in ARPG’s and Last Epoch is trying to fix my issue with them. I WANT to fight bosses and get good at their mechanics. It’s genuinely fun for me to continue improving my gameplay and seeing visible improvement in my mechanics vs my stats.
I’d even be fine with them implementing soft caps to your stats based on corruption and balancing that way. In Kingdom Hearts 1, for example, you soft cap at ~60 in STR and Defense meaning that you could have 800 STR and DEF and deal/take roughly the same damage as someone with 65 STR and DEF. A similar system would limit the damage potential of your skills in each corruption tier. It would have to be clearable, obviously, and some builds will still do better than others, but there’d be no nasty ward mechanics slowing down your boss fight. You would simply speed up your time by minimizing the time spent dodging and maximizing your uptime and skill/passive build synergies.
Anything that let’s me FIGHT a boss, even if it’s the same fight every time. I farmed the data-organization in KH2 for the stat boosting items to reach that games softcap of 80 and not once did I think “I wish I’d be able to one shot these bosses now.” I simply enjoyed the fact that I was getting better at the fights the more I fought them. I’d love the same feeling in an arpg and last epoch seems to be the only game who cares enough about it to try to implement a system to prevent players from trivializing their bosses.
I’m not wrong for wanting these things in an arpg either. We just enjoy different things about our ARPG’s and that’s OK.
My argument is that there’s no possible option to re-work it to make the basic mechanic function.
It can’t happen.
It’s impossible.
If it happens it’s not even close to the current system as the current system is not ‘unpolished’ but instead ‘detrimental and doing the opposite of the goal’.
All they can realistically do is make it ‘less awful’, which inherently means ‘still awful’.
It is not subjective.
It’s a lack of understanding of how the human brain works psychologically.
What I’m talking about is a objective thing for the vast majority of people.
The only ones not complaining are those which haven’t been affected by it yet (go and play a really low dps build and tell me how it feels after) or those which can’t wrap their minds around the functionality of the system itself.
I don’t like Boss Ward because it has no function.
Once more, repeat: What is it supposed to do?
And then look at what does it actually do?
You got your answer right there, I’ll gladly repeat it though if it’s still not blinking up in your brain when you do this.
That is a ‘you’ problem.
LE is not *fixing’ crap. Boss fights are a inherent diablo-clone aspect… and not even a diablo-clone aspect but also one of ARPGs and MMOARPGs. They’re nearly all identical in design-setup, with some inventive special things at times but overall go always the same direction.
If you don’t enjoy em that’s fine, you enjoy the content in diablo-clones otherwise.
What I hear from you instead is ‘Oh, yeah, I don’t enjoy the aspect of the genre so make it into some other new genre instead.’
What?
I haven’t even talked about that, you clearly haven’t understood the meaning of my posts.
Stats are a core aspect of a diablo-clone game. No way around it.
If you wanna improve solely on skill-based mechanics then play a ARPG which mostly has static equipment, because this specific genre here is designed to majorly work on stats.
Which doesn’t deny the aspect of getting skill-wise better… it just reduces it to a large degree by intended design. Not following it is failing at a core design of this genre.
Yeah, you can be sure the game’s dead the second they do that.
Fine if you enjoy such stuff, the majority of people in LE are those which either come from PoE for variety or those which don’t quite enjoy how casual D3/D4 are but PoE is overwhelming.
Well, yeah… prime example how a diablo clone does fail. Enforcing that you always struggle against a boss even should you’ve substantially outpaced it through progression.
That’s because you don’t enjoy one of the major core assets of a game which is designed to get you ‘from peasant to god’ in power-level.
You become the unbeatable hero (or antihero) in those games.
Nah, you’re not.
But you’re wrong in wanting them in a diablo-clone
ARPGs in general? Absolutely fine.
I’m fine with peasant to God power-level. Just put me up against God’s that can fight back. Blowing up hordes of enemies is 90% of the fun. Then the other 10% is fighting a boss. If the boss is almost indistinguishable from a regular enemy, is it really a boss? This is a core problem that I have (and clearly EHG does too) with boss design in Diablo-clones. Why bother even designing bosses if you’re just going to have your players one shot it like any other elite pack? It’s not fun at that point because the one thing supposed to be challenging becomes another chore on your farming checklist. At that point, why even continue chasing for more power? This is why I didn’t continue farming in D2, the so called pinnacle of ARPGs. I beat Hell mode and at that point, I could farm until I can solo the ubers, but then what? Everying dies near-instantly so there’s nothing left me to actually do?
Last Epoch sees that issue and says “hey, let’s put in a mechanic that will keep boss fights from becoming trash mobs.” and your reaction is what? “nooooo, let me one shot bosses so I can feel op!” even though you one shot everything else?
You’re absolutely correct in saying that Boss Ward is not performing what the devs want it to do. It should be hindering high dps builds and be a non-factor to low dps builds. Unfortunately it’s backwards right now and needs to be fixed. You say removed. I say fixed. This is the subjective issue. I don’t believe the game will be better with bosses being loot piñatas with no impact. You do. That’s it.
Yes, which is where balance comes all the way around to wave a nice ‘hello’ to you.
Proper balance means bosses put up a fight which means you need to work to pass them which means then you get a bit more progression which means you kill them quicker because of it.
The whole diablo-clone cycle.
T8 Torchlight area bosses are a fight commonly. Wanderer is nigh always outside of the strongest builds after hundreds of hours.
Uber-Lilith was in D4 even, seemingly they nerfed her.
PoE has a good… 20 bosses which are challenging? And unless you use a fairly broken build and invest heavily into it you’ll not ‘delete’ them but instead have to fight sometimes very rough fights.
It’s not the genre… it’s just your own experience since most diablo-clones are not all too good in boss design, too heavily focused on itemization… and crafting… and how loot drops to forget the actual gameplay.
Once again, balance mistake, major one.
Number go brrrrr…
Yes, which is the goal to achieve.
Have you achieved it? It doesn’t sound like it.
So… you ended before the actual goal.
This sounds more like a commitment thing from your side after the realization where exactly the end-point is. Seeing it and hence loosing interest.
And this again shows me you’ve cherry-picked some tidbits rather then understanding. Despite several repeats from my side.
If you delete bosses on your first try without surprisingly lucky drops then the devs screwed up.
Simple as that. If devs need a mechanic to take care of their balance they screwed up then it’s a sign of failure as a game-dev for a diablo-clone
Also quite simple.
So don’t come with ‘but you want to make everything explode!’ Yes, I do! After I’ve had tough fights against the boss and started to simply out-progress it after.
It shouldn’t be that hard to understand. What part of the concept eludes you?
How so is my question?
My answer to it is ‘balancing is the most functional and direct way to achieve that. Any other method will likely take as long and achieve less’.
Yeah, you understood jack-shit, since I don’t do
That’s it.
I hope EHG never ever ever ever implements D3’s loot system. I like making alts and D3’s (and D4’s even more) is a system that actively discourages making one.
Here’s the crux of the issue and why I’m telling you that your opinion is subjective.
EVERY arpg game has bosses that are difficult their first time you fight them. D2 ubers, D4 Uber Lilith, Torchlight Infinite Wanderer, those 20 or so PoE bosses, etc. And I completely agree that if you wipe the floor with a supposed to be challenging boss the first time you fight it either the devs messed up, you got incredibly lucky with drops, or you over leveled.
Now we get into the core endgame loop of grinding for gear so you can progress through whatever endgame activities you fancy. Bosses become increasingly easier as your power goes up because the devs designed the fights to be “balanced” around the first few times you fight them.
That’s the Diablo-Clone balance process. There is 0 boss scaling.
Last Epoch is trying to do something new with their bosses by adding scaling mechanics. We can all agree that their attempts failed so far, but that doesn’t mean the concept is flawed. Last Epoch doesn’t want bosses to become triviialized because you got some better gear.
I’m not talking about the first time you fight a boss, I’m talking about the endgame power loop. If you’re farming runs for gear include bosses that you kill in 2s, I believe the game is fundamentally flawed in it’s endgame loop. You do not. Hence why I said that you want loot piñatas.
Edit: I’ll also add that outside of D2, most diablo-clones don’t include their super bosses as part of their core farming loop. They added them as challenges to farm other bosses/dungeons/maps/Rifts/etc. to beat.
So when I’m talking “bosses being loot piñatas” I’m not talking about super bosses. I’m talking about the farming loop for gear progression. Though, Super Bosses in most Diablo-clones also don’t scale, they’re just incredibly tough, so they will eventually be trivialized as power creep settles in.
Edit 2: Effectively, Last Epoch is trying to treat all bosses as Super Bosses without requiring the player to grind around bosses. By adding scaling mechanics that make the boss more resistant to player power instead of making the player weaker (i.e. You aren’t lowering the player’s power like a level sync would) you can still have players power creep the bosses, but it’s not going to happen as fast as other Diablo-clones. Again, this is the design intent and currently it’s affecting low dps builds too much, while not affecting high dps builds at all. Which requires tweaking boss ward at the low end, and reining in the power of player builds at the high end. Which takes time.
Kinda? You can trivialise bosses with better gear, but then that’s a sign that you can attempt them on higher corruption. So LE gives us the best (or worst, depending on how one looks at it) of both worlds. Since the mono bosses difficulty scales with corruption, you have a choice of whether to have an easier or harder fight (ignoring Aberroth).
Yeah, absolutely. But who said ‘it has to be like D3’?
A ‘Loot 2.0’ situation happens when you realize that your system has inherent shortcomings which needs to be solved.
What is done is not fixated, it depends on the respective system.
First of all… They don’t scale.
There is none of that, this mechanic is not a scaling mechanic.
So that’s inherently wrong from the get-go.
That argument is by definition already a failed one.
We don’t know if that’s what EHG ‘actually’ wants to achieve, you’re inferring meaning into something because you have no idea if it’s the case or not, so you default to ‘This has to be it!’.
No, don’t think like that if you can avoid it, there’s deductive reduction possible which works, when you reduce things far down until nothing else ‘makes sense’ and you give someone the benefit of the doubt (which you in general should).
But in this case there is no sign or showcase that it’s what EHG even remotely wants to achieve with that.
Their reason is directly and clearly stated, and that’s ‘We don’t want players to trivialize bosses’, and that’s a fairly nonsensical design-notion for this genre.
Yes, it includes the end-game power-loop.
If you as a dev realize your progression outpaces your hardest bosses you screwed up in positioning those bosses.
And especially in a endlessly scaling core mechanic the default state of those pushing ever further forward is by design offensive based. The best defense is a good offense fits after all in hack’n’slash games. What isn’t able to hit you before falling down for a nap can’t after all kill you. Defensive measures have inherently less value then offensive measures, and this stays in direct correlation with rising skill levels to boot.
Yes! Yes it absolutely is!
It’s a wake-up call that a dev has utterly screwed up.
Either a massive balance issue is existing (is it or not? Do we have a balance issue? What do you think? ) or you as a dev have failed to provide respective content which aligns with your progression (And that one is also the case. Harbingers are the first step of several more).
Either/or, if it happens you’ve got a problem at hand since players outpace your bosses and have ‘nothing left’.
Which is when you realize you should:
A) Get your whole progression system fixed.
B) Get a boatload of more content beyond your current one.
C) Make a heavy-handed and harsh balance overhaul.
Depending on situation those 3 are the main options.
Never is it D) Make a arbitrary extra mechanic that tries to cover your failures.
Yes, which is very good actually, it allows the more casual players to enjoy the game without feeling ‘deprived’ of the enjoyment. Which is also something PoE has gotten. Maven herself is the end-game for the ‘more casuals’ (and that’s already a really hard fight for many) but beyond that you got the whole range of Uber-Boss variants, like Uber Maven, Uber Exarch, Uber Eater of Worlds, The Feared Boss Gauntlet and more.
Yes, that’s general good design, agreed.
Yes, when a ‘super boss’ is trivialized what do you think happened to the bosses before?
And why would that be bad and not the contrary?
It’s such… massive… backwards development.
It’s a dynamic power scaling system what you’re talking about.
It’s what Bethesda has done in Fallout in the most pronounced way possible. Enemies getting stronger as you get stronger.
Always did and always feels like shit since it messes with the perception of the power progression.
The only viable ways to avoid that perception bias is to create a static scaling system which takes away enemies and instead populates places with other enemies after progression.
Neither is in Last Epoch. A good example of the static one which isn’t player driven is to be seen in ‘No Rest for the Wicked’ and good ones with player agency are for example D2 with the 3 difficulty stages, Chronicon with the area slider or D4 with the world level for examples in the genre.
You never dynamically scale enemies which have already existed before. This design had failed the first time it was implemented and did without exception since then.
You actually deprive their psyche from that though, which makes your game vastly less enticing.
And that’s heavily pronounced in this genre since players have a completely different expectation.
Again… the same argument. Like a darn broken record it comes over and over.
Is there some general learning disability going on as to why people seem to default back to that? Does nobody read?
To tweak ward at the low end you would need to know the damage output of the player beforehand. That’s the only solution. Then you dynamically create the ward relative to that.
It’s a static system though, it doesn’t change if you’re high- or low-dps.
Hence it - by design - *is unable to affect high-dps players more then low-dps players.
Which is the whole darn friggin argument from start to finish which I’m making.
There is no ‘tweaking numbers’ for a mechanic which does inherently the opposite of what it’s supposed to do damnit.
Sometimes this forum is like arguing against brick walls.
You explain how something works, someone comes along and tries to re-frame it entirely while ignoring the core aspect that’s important and then says ‘Oh here, it’s fixed! See?’ as if they’re expecting to get some sort of ‘enlightened’ moment out of you… and instead all they did was showcase that they don’t understand the problem at all.
You’re literally using a shape-game for little kids here and are currently proud of putting the round piece into the slot for the square piece, deeming it as ‘correct’.
That’s where we’re moving on this discussion.
We can’t even come up with fitting solutions until EHG got their shit fixed because here we are… discussing why you are expected to put the right shape into the similarly shaped hole.
Except it IS a scaling mechanic, whether you like it or not.
Dynamic Damage Reduction, the original system, reduced player damage dynamically based on their dps output. Scaling the damage the player dealt to make the boss more durable. This didn’t work against burst damage and could easily be circumvented, and just generally felt bad for the vast majority of players. So they replaced it.
The current system of Boss Ward has phases where the longer the ward lasts the faster it decays… Almost as if… gasp it scales to your dps!! How shocking!
You can insult my intelligence all you want, but the fact that you can’t even understand the design intent of the mechanic you’re complaining about when the developers themselves have told us what it’s meant to do says more about you than me.
Well, balance is a thing that doesn’t piss folks off. I get that it’s really hard. In a bunch of other ARPGs (Wolcen and PoE are the ones that most strongly jump to mind) there were periods of time where they implemented boss-phases and other stuff to try to make all classes have a similar experience… because they struggled with balance. Wolcen just crashed. PoE has made a lot of progress with balance and also, to a certain extent, said, “ok, that’s good enough, a quest for absolute balance will make fun disappear”.
I think D4 is definitely in that, “absolute balance is the enemy of fun”, camp. Which I agree with.
Weirdly, I think D3 is actually the one game that has pretty much nailed balance (based upon the rift stats from every season), but they did it at the expense of giving the player agency over their build. So, yay?, but also, boooo!
I’m bummed with Boss Ward because I, possibly incorrectly, don’t get the feeling that EHG considers the Boss Ward system a temporary measure while they work hard to improve balance (especially since it replaces DR).
I do get that LE’s number one priorities are more content and bug fixing (especially in terms of a stable economy).
No, I definitely can’t say I loved every PoE seasonal gimmick. I definitely can say that I really appreciate them as a company saying, “we’re going to try weird shit, it’s not always going to work”. I love that about GGG.
Boss Ward isn’t new, it’s a replacement of DR. It’s not experimental. And both of which should be considered stop-gaps toward balance where there wasn’t huge differences between damage output between what are considered viable builds. I honestly don’t understand why developers love adding multiple multiplicative damage skills/attributes/affixes into games and then are surprised by huge numbers.
… that’s a bit dishonest, actually. Players love huge numbers. So, we’re complicit in this issue.
I don’t, I criticise your ability to comprehend and read. Which has nothing to do with your intelligence.
If your reading comprehension and pattern recognition isn’t enough then the obvious outcome is misconceptions.
I actually wanted to answer in more detail but then I read this:
Followed by:
Bolded even. So I would’ve expected to read and comprehend it at that time.
Can you read? If yes then you can’t comprehend.
I ask again.
Can. You. Read?
Agreed!
I’m not mad at them for ‘trying out new things’.
But GGG sure as hell also heard from me ‘Well, that went like shit, definitely don’t even think about doing that’.
7 years long I’ve called out for asynchronous currency trading, I was ridiculed, talked down upon by the community.
And 3.25 comes around, asynchronous currency trading comes in and now everyone’s going ‘It’s the greatest thing in the world!’
I also got ridiculed for saying that end-game needs player-agency from start to finish when the prophecy and sextant mechanic were there, as well as all side-mechanics being fully random and enforced upon the player.
Then they added the atlas passive tree and everyone went ‘such a great invention!’ as well as the re-work to put all the leftover situations into the scarabs and once again ‘Oh wow, GGG did such a fantastic thing!’.
Yeah, screw that, same shit here. No difference.
I called out campaign progression and perception of progression (Lagon, monolith to empowered monolith, difficulty and gradual rise of it), the loot-drop calculation, the 2/2 affix split on items, Boss Ward and long-term versus cycle-term grinding goal (Blessings are cycle-term for example).
I got talked down here for all of those, nobody sees it.
EHG will likely come around in 2-3 years, fix that stuff upon - finally - realizing it’s become so bad that it negatively affects their game since years (did the first second it appeared but now only the most inept people can ignore it) and then change it… and voila, every time the game will get a sudden general rise in retention.
Yes, absolutely.
Going all ‘pikachu face’ because people push and use the methods given is baffling. It’s to be expected. You don’t ‘reign that in’, never do. You see where it comes from and address the root cause, not the direct symptom. This allows people to still push huge numbers, enjoy the outcome but not affect them directly in a negative way.
Wow, aside from me changing my position on if it’s working as intended being up for debate, with the new information presented in this discussion, it’s almost as if I’ve been talking about the system as a goal and how it’s intended to work the entire time.
The goal of going to the Olympics is to get the Gold in your event. Just because you got silver, or bronze, or didn’t get a medal at all doesn’t make your goal wrong.
The goal of Boss Ward is exactly what Kain said it is. The goal of Boss Ward is to not impact lower dps players and give bosses a fighting chance against high dps players. The goal isn’t the problem.
And just because you really don’t seem to understand what goal means here’s the three top definitions of goal.
Goal: the result or achievement toward which effort is directed
Goal: The goal is the intention of an activity or a plan. In a figurative sense, a goal is the mission of a person or group.
Now that we’re all on the same page.
Boss Ward, as it’s intended by the developers to work, is a good thing to strive for. I want my bosses to not be as weak as a regular enemy. I believe in the goal of Boss Ward and similar mechanics and believe with some tweaks to the current system that’s not working as intended that Boss Ward will be a good addition to the game.
I infer the answer that you can’t read or understand hence.
We’ve proven that the system affects low-dps more then high dps.
EHG writes it’s to affect low-dps less then high-dps.
That by design failed.
That means the mechanic is non-functional.
And you couldn’t receive this information from neither the text you linked nor from the discussions made, hence there is no point to argue further.
Your ‘up for debate’ is already done, you’re regressing back, we have the answer and it’s ‘no it’s not’. Next step, which you also add with a further quote, so why mention it? Those statements are ‘not up for debate’ anymore henceforth.
Nobody stated that their ‘goal’ is something different.
The arguments are:
This mechanic can’t achieve the goal.
The goal to achieve is a direct consequence of balance.
The goal is unachievable in a reliable way through symptom solving rather then root-cause solving.
Are we finally on the same page?
Nobody gives a shit what their goals or good intentions are, we’re the players, the consumers, we’re saying ‘what is’ the case. That crap doesn’t interest us, it’s solely to excuse the existence in the first place… hence… it’s excused.
Why are we arguing if it has to go if the logical conclusion for the logical progression has already been made?
What are you arguing about?
I hear from you ‘it should stay’. You admitted ‘it doesn’t work’. Hence what are you doing?
You’re so caught up on the fact that if it doesn’t work now, it will never work. And that’s a logical fallacy.
The devs can get the system to work as intended with tweaks. Just because it didn’t work as intended initially doesn’t mean you just chuck the system out the window. Do you give up as soon as you fail once? I don’t. I try again, because… You know, that’s how you improve?
I believe, and so do others, that the mechanic can be modified to achieve the necessary goal that the developer wants. You, and others, don’t believe that.
I’m not saying no system can work which would be entirely wrong.
What I’m saying currently is that it’s extremely unlikely that a extra system does present a solution while also be in the allowed perimeters of resource- and time-investment which leads me to say fixing the balance is the faster, easier and more long-term solution.
Is any of that factually wrong?
We can argue if my statement about the chance of a alternative system proving a solution is wrong or right, because I don’t have all parameters for that.
We can’t discuss if this current solution though is, because it’s a proven non-functional one.
Good intention, bad execution.
Also you seem to still have a inherent misconception here. A non-functional system is one which inherently can’t fulfill the intended function. It’s not a ‘this needs some tweaking’ thing.
PoE’s animation re-work was a ‘this needs tweaking’ thing. PoE’s elder/shaper ping-pong mechanic for handling influence was a ‘non-functional mechanic’ which was impossible to fix in comparison. Which is why they removed it over time.
There is a very very important distinct difference.
Ok, then tell me a ‘how?’.
Not a detailed plan, just the direction. What needs to be done?
I heard ‘raise the Ward value’… which does the opposite of the intended outcome.
I also heard ‘reduce the ward decay’… which also does the opposite of the intended outcome.
The current only solution which is visible is to raise the Ward value to extreme levels, I’m talking about 5-10 times as much as we currently have… and also increase the ward decay-rate to thrice of what we have now.
What would this achieve though?
A low-dps build solely focuses on sustain and positioning during ward-times. There is ‘0’ meaning to attack the boss.
A mid-dps build could speed it up a few seconds maybe.
A high-dps build will be able to at least make a dent, but still be enforced to go through the phase.
