The relationship between Spell Blade and the sword

Mage
1

The relationship between Spell Blade and the sword …

Hello. I would like to draw your attention to such a problem as the involvement of the class in its main weapon.

In modern realities, Spell can only use (due to the sheer superiority) Crystal Blade (from ordinary swords), which in my opinion is a big mistake in terms of gameplay and its variety.

See for yourself what% of all SpellBlade builds are built on Crystal Blade? Do you think this is correct?

The problem in my opinion is how the SpellBlade passive skills are organized, for the most part, they are not directly related to swords in any way, but only to specific parameters.
As a result, the sword with% of the element killed all other swords.

I believe that it would be more correct to have an organization in which SpellBlade could choose different swords with equal efficiency, depending on his build.
Not just one weapon for all occasions.

2

IMO there are way more good 1H wepaons for Spellblade other than Crystal Sword.

Sword: Katana
Axe: Eagle Wing
Blunt: Solarum Hammer, Doom Star, Rune Hammer
Dagger: Rune Dagger, Moon Dagger
Sceptre: Argentus Sceptre, Obsidian Sceptre

3

When was the last time you used these weapons on SpellBlade ? (with the exception of scepters, I have no complaints about them)

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One of them… almost on every single Spellblade I play.
Since you can’t DW these weapons, with the exceptions of Katana, I do use a crystal sword in the off-hand most of the times, but I also often use 1H + Shield on a Spellblade.

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5

And do you use a katana when you put on a shield ?
Also, I would like to know at what level of corruption you use katanas and other types of weapons.

6

Depends on the build, if it’s a crit focused build that does some non-melee crits, yes.

Otherwise if it’s a crit build I most likely use Doom Star.

But all of oyu questions don’t lead anyway.

My point still stands: There are a lot of optiosn for Spellblade

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7

I use an eye of reen on my Flame Reave build that can push high corruption. It’s a katana base, and I’m glad because crit multi is better for a build that has 100% crit.

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I did not mean unique weapons, they have special properties that can be used.
This also includes set swords with Void (for a known build) or Cold damage (the choice of all Shatters).
They all have properties similar to Crystal Blade, pro-damage and percentage of elements. As did the Eye of Reen.
They all directly scale with SpellBlade passives. They are all the same type.

This is something like if Mages could not use, depending on their needs, certain staves, but only one type of staves. Or only unique staffs.
In other games, these mechanics are called a crutch. When they create some kind of entity, for a single purpose, to close a hole in the mechanics.

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The point is, I’d rather it be the crit multi base than the elemental base. If I wasn’t using Eye of Reen, I’d still choose crit multi for the build.

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Quick questions to the OP - and taking my usual devils advocate approach…

You have posted a LOT of different threads about your thoughts & criticisms of the spellblade design - everything from skills to gear synergies and the general mechanics of things like wards… In some cases you make valid points that would improve the class design based on the developers intended class theme and help it be more balanced with other classes in terms of pushing high corruptions etc. However, some of your other comments, imho, just come off as spellblade bashing and seem to want to dilute the niche quality of the spellblade character by making it less that its designed to be and more overlapping with the theme design of other classes…

Personally, I find the spellblade a brilliant, innovative class in LE and it works really well in the character thematic design of an elemental mage using melee. It works as fire, lightning and cold very well and barring a few tweaks here and there (some you have mentioned and I agree with) is more than capable of handling the end game. It has design based limitations around gear restrictions and various other intended limitations that the devs obviously implemented to suit that design theme… There are also lots of things that continually change to improve the class and yet remain within the design considerations - like for instance the addition of crystal swords only recently…

There are spellblades in Arena ladders clearing 300+ levels and people using Spellblades to farm 200+ corruption…

Sure, its not in the same leagues as the tanky boy Sentinels and other classes that clear 1000+ arena and 300+ corruption, but that is, imho, a balancing issue not a design issue.

So my question are this:

  1. Do you like the Spellblade class as a thematic melee elemental mage?

  2. Are you basing your comments & especially criticisms of the class in consideration of the thematic designs of the other classes - i.e. based on how the developers have intended the class to fit into the others… Obviously the devs have designed each class to fit a niche and thats how the game is intended - for better or worse - vs making each class very generic - something you seem keen on.

  3. Have you played any other classes to see if they suit the way you want Spellblade to work instead? e.g. perhaps a shaman or spell based sentinel would better match how you seem to be trying to mold a spellblade?

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Hi. I apologize in advance, I use a translator, so I hope that I can correctly convey my thought.

Unfortunately, there is some problem with SpellBlade’s perception. I’m not entirely sure that I understand correctly what the developers want to do, how they see the “ideal SpellBlade”.

As for me, for me the “perfect Spell” is an ordinary fragile magician who uses his will (intellect) to protect (through the Ward) and uses the sword as a catalyst (a conductor - tool) for his magic, in close combat.
That is, the Mage himself is a source of power, and not a magic sword (After all, it is the Mage who is the basis of the class, and not the warrior). Unlike the warriors, who use magic swords as a source of magic.

But in fact, looking at today’s Spell, at his strongest assemblies, he seems to me like an ordinary warrior who has a magic sword in his hands. Which is not much different from any warrior class that was given an element of damage.

Which doesn’t really have much connection to the sword, except for Gemini and a few skills, that is, very superficial. Spell Blade has a melee binding, but not a sword.
(From that for example, Crystal Blade, I see it as an attempt to artificially create such a connection. He is more suitable for a warrior who plays with his weapons. In my opinion this is a mistake, the connection should be created through class skills, not items. But this is a personal opinion , I do not insist)

And I can’t understand, it’s just errors in the balance, lack of content, or errors in the implementation of the idea, or maybe everything is correct, it should be, it’s just that I don’t perceive SpellBlade that way.

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Tell me, did I understand you correctly that you think that each class should be unique and with its own features ?

Do you think SpellBlade’s melee elemental combat mechanics are unique to LE ?

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It’s unique to the mastery in LE.

EHG did not invent a melee fighting mage.

Fir me personally the Spellblade exactly fits what I’d expect from the name. I’d even go further and say that it’s even more magic and less martial arts ninja style than I would have build the mastery around.

If I would ever create a Spellblade in a game, it would be a Kung Fu Fighter with all kind of melee weapon skills. Magic would be used for defensive purposes, movement and buffs.

With all that elemental stuff, the current LE soellblade perfectly fits for me.

The issue you point out, is one that isn’t solely dedicated to the Spellblade mastery. Many builds have a not so wide choice of weapons if you want to fully use its potential.

You will always use a base type weapon that fits your build best. In this case, it’s the Crystal Blade. It’s the highest base that fits this class. As others said, you can also use Katana for maxing damage.

On a bleed Bladedancer you won’t use Crystal blades. You might use an axe with a lot of bleed support, but sword fits better, because of passive synergies and idols.

These kind of restrictions can be found all over the game. This is part of the philosophy. The devs tell you straight away that if you want to play a dual wielding melee mage, the optimal choice is swords. That’s their class fantasy.

Maybe when time goes by we get additional sword base types that are suitable for Spellblade besides the 2 current choices. I don’t say no to more variety.

But class fantasy is ok for me regarding Spellblade.

14

I do not argue with this, I completely agree that SpellBlade should solve his tasks with the help of swords. But this is the problem.

Maybe when time goes by we get additional sword base types that are suitable for Spellblade besides the 2 current choices.

Take a look at this list.

Sword: Katana
Axe: Eagle Wing
Blunt: Solarum Hammer, Doom Star, Rune Hammer
Dagger: Rune Dagger, Moon Dagger
Sceptre: Argentus Sceptre, Obsidian Sceptre

Among all these weapons that could potentially be used, there is only one sword, the katana, and then, it is only suitable because of one single node (of all SpellBlade skills), which gives a critical attack.
Or take for example the Scimitar, which logically should be suitable for SpellBlade instead of Argent Scepter, but not suitable, because SpellBlade does not have abilities that are enhanced by swords.
As a result, even with suitable swords, we use scepitres. Or with daggers or clubs …

As a result, for SpellBlade you need to create crutches, like Crystal Sword, for its mechanics to work …

In my opinion, SpellBlade should be such that by taking a Scimitar in hand, it becomes useful and effective for us. Or taking the Dawn Blade into our hands, he turned out to be more effective for us than, for example, the Obsidian Scepter.

P.S. Tell me, is Spellblade for you a magician or a warrior?
If you give a war to the hands of a sword with fire damage, he will turn into a melee mage?

If I would ever create a Spellblade in a game, it would be a Kung Fu Fighter with all kind of melee weapon skills. Magic would be used for defensive purposes, movement and buffs.

I remember the D&D games.
Take Paladin for example. He imposes buffs on himself, increases defense, attack, and so on, even a sword can make him burn (if I didn’t mix it up). But does that make him a melee mage?

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Weapons are just statstics and that’s it… there is no fantasy to it it’s just coded that way.

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Yeah. Your character also is only a stat stick. Passives are just stats. Attack skills do nothing else but decreasing enemy hp. It’s just code and mathematical operations. So according to your argumentation, theres no fantasy involved. Not only in LE but any other game.

I really dont get your point.

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You don’t get maths do you.

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Yeah stats are just tools, equipment… just tools. At the end of the day you can simply play what you like because it don’t matter outside of effectiveness.

OP seems to have his own kind of class fantasy he wishes for and it’s simply not given because first of all the game works how it works and secondly the class fantasy is different in the Spell Blade example. It simply don’t match it at all aspects.

Hope this helps ^^.

19

People play role-playing games to act out their fantasy, so we have Sorka, not the number one magician. Druid, not magician number two. Paladin, not mage number three.

And at the same time, we want to be effective. All the most popular games, such as Diablo, GD, and others, they give people a role-playing game.
At the same time, if it does not give them efficiency, or upsets the balance (as, for example, he began to do PoE), the game loses its popularity and is not played.
Because most people don’t play math, but fantasy.

No. I just want what the developer gives to be effective and interesting. And the mechanics of the characters, including from the point of view of the role-playing part, were full-fledged, and not contained in the game crutches.

If the developers make a SpellBlade, whose lore is based on swords, then they must have implementation in his skills and abilities.

If the developers give the SpellBlade skills that work from the spell (for example, Lightning Blast through triggers), then the SpellBlade must successfully implement them. And don’t do it with a staff, because SpellBlade is not a Sork. And with swords, because such a Lore was invented by the developers.

Take the Druid for example. His lore is based on transformation. Imagine that his transformation does not depend on skills, but on the clothes he is wearing. Would that be correct? No.
Weapons and armor, a tool that should help customize the playable class, not replace it.

But that’s how it is with SpellBlade now. His Lore is a sword. But we are offered to run with scepters and staves, axes and clubs, because this is mathematics …

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20

Yes… To me this is part of the appeal of a game like Last Epoch… Because classes are unique in thier own ways, it motivates me to play each class… to experiment and find the ones I like and enjoy a variation in play style that is partially confined within the design of the class…

Games that are more free, allowing you to build any character tend to be less appealing to me because I subconciously end up building subtle variations of the same thing - they are interesting but imho, I dont spend very much time playing them because I am not forced to try new things.

No… not at all - I have been playing rpg games for decades and before that DnD - a melee based mage is nothing new. But it works as a niche build in the Mage Class, in the same way as a Forge Guard works as a niche build in Sentinel Class. For me, its ticking a box for a particular character favourite - just like all LE classes - they all try to match class themes that people are familar with while still trying to add something Unique to LE.

One important thing to note before continuing: The game is in beta and I have been playing for over a year now and there have been MANY class reworks already… I dont think that ANY class in the game right now is 100% complete or 100% perfect - spellblades included.

What I get from your threads/posts is that you have an IDEA of what YOU think a Spellblade should be and are trying to make the Spellblade in the game match your idea… instead of just playing the spellblade like its designed…

Unlike you, I dont see a Spellblade as a fragile magician using swords/gear to enhance their innate magical spells/abilities … I see it the other way around… I see a warrior (something like a ranger not barbarian) that uses magically enhanced skills/weapons to enhance their melee abilities… So for me, the current design of the Spellblade fits well… Skills benefit from Dex & Int, melee attributes like attack speed etc are important, crystal swords benefit damage and speed… Spells, like Flame Ward/ Ward etc, focus on defence… melee tagged skills focus on offence with elements… With your idea of a spellblade, that would have to be reversed… offense becoming spells… defence becoming melee (like armour/dodge etc).

So I think that you just have a different view on what you think a spellblade is… Its different than what I think the game designers intended (and what I consider a spellblade to be)…