That would be the old corruption mechanic before launch, where the mods where what actually added difficulty, rather than the corruption level. People didn’t like that particularly (you had to constantly watch what nodes you were going to take, you had to sometimes postpone the boss fights so the mods would go away, etc), which is why it was changed to the current system.
I was actually expecting this season to bring something like that, where we could add mods to the echoes for higher difficulty/rewards. Was kinda disappointed it didn’t happen.
Infinite scaling is bad in most things, especially in modern times, because for some reason people expect things to be balanced infinitely,. and that’s just not a reasonable expectation. Given enough scaling, even small differences in power can result in enormous gaps of pinnacle achievement.
But Shattered Realms is more like Arena, surely? Crucible is a fixed difficulty.
And Delve is pseudo “infinitely scaling”, in the same way as corruption is infinitely scaling. Corruption will also have a cap based on the type of integer used to save it.
Agree ARPGs are about loot hunting farming and build diversity. When you have infinite scaling and huge incentives to push corruption. You now have 5 META builds for the season that 60% of people play because they want to enjoy the game and do ALL the content.
I’d much rather them cap corruption at 500 and really focus on creature AI and balance (overtuned 1 shots and Aoe). Get 90% of builds to be able to farm 500 corruption. This leads to really fun gameplay where you get to do the repetitive content with a huge variety of fun builds which drastically increases replayabillty.
If you want to introduce more Ubers okay… coolzies sure the meme builds and less can do that content but that is no different than D2 where you have Smiter Pally’s and those builds that farm Ubers for other characters.
Well, kinda, but also not really?
Crucible is pretty much like an arena that is capped.
Shattered realms is kinda of a crossover between arena and echoes, tbh.
There are so many things that D2 and Titan Quest have that current games have lost that it would be enough to write a book and that is the reason why D2 and TQ are eternal classics.
But the truth is that what bothers me the most is that everything in these current games has become a trap, nothing is in the game to be usual or fun, everything is a barrier and a type of trap, that is, everything is governed by RNG. LE does not have unique items because a “unique” item can drop with 10% or 100%, that is an idiotic margin, besides of course the LP that is once again RNG in the drop, RNG in the craft, so the infinite scaling is a way to disguise that these games are empty, they have NOTHING besides the grind, I think LE is a little less tedious but D4 and from what is shaping up PoE2 are Grind to Grind games. where you need to grind 100h to be able to Grind more… And this can be cool for the whales, it can generate content for the streamers, but honestly it sucks for the PLAYER, that’s why BG3 (a game focused on CONTENT) has 100k active players 3 years after its release without adding ANYTHING new, meanwhile modern aRPGs die 2 weeks after the season opens.
I don’t mind infinite scaling, so long as the devs have a clear statement on what their ‘cap’ is for balance.
Grim Dawn is a good example: Shattered Realm is infinite scaling, but they target SR30 as their balance cap:
no better rewards are offered above that level
balance changes (nerfs and buffs) are performed based on being able to reasonably attempt SR30 (or Crucible mode clear speed at Crucible L150)
This works. Players can still attempt higher levels for self satisfaction or bragging, but the rewards don’t scale to force people to go higher…
Personally, I think corruption should be changed slightly to go up in clear 100/200 jumps. It’s then easier to gauge if you can do it or not and makes clear balancing points. I believe the devs have said ~300 corruption is the design max (?), but that needs to be clear and show in how builds balance out, builds shouldn’t be easily hitting 1000+ if 300 is the balance target and I would expect more nerfs.
But to make the nerfs, it has to be clear the rewards have a ceiling that players aren’t losing out from by not going past it. Also, make it 500 or 1000 corruption, it’s a nicer number and should take a while to achieve.
You can then have uberbosses in the game, just make sure they don’t require ridiculous corruption clears to get there (again, Grim Dawn does this well with hidden superbosses within the campaign map)
Actually, that would be the design min. They’ve said that they consider a build that does 300c as successful. Meaning that builds that do less aren’t.
So 300c is the floor. Not the ceiling.
And they’ve placed Uby at 500c (and with effective difficulty much higher), so they clearly intend builds to aim higher.
They haven’t said anything lately about the intended ceiling (it used to be that 1k+ was unintended and a mistake on their part) with the new added stuff, though.
There is a soft cap at 500c and another at 1000c. So you get diminishing returns between 500c and 1000c and very diminishing returns after that.
Ah ok, I think that’s a bit of the problem then. It’s great to have a floor, but without a ceiling my build scraping through at c300 still feels lame vs someone crushing c1500.
I think they need to pick one and make no better returns from that point.
c300: you can start getting the best items
c500/1000: you stop getting loot above this. GD again does this well, you can push higher than SR80 (now 40) but you don’t get loot, just bragging rights.
It’s not. They just considered those builds successful.
However the rewards past 300c are significant which is why people NEED builds that do 1,000c. They are compelled to play those builds. The rewards are drastically better after 500c and most people try to farm between 700-1,000c. Harsh cut off after 1,000c so techinically that is the cieling for builds and where the game is balanced around.
Which again I rather there be no rewards at higher corruption. Players play loot based games for that dopamine and rewards. They aren’t going to play 300c builds and waste their time. They want to do ALL the content and get ALL the loot.
Their intended ceiling used to be less than 1k. However, that’s never really been a reality, even before launch. 1.1 was a good step in the right direction, with less OP builds able to push 1k+ than in 1.0. But 1.2 is a step in the other direction, with more OP builds now cruising 1k+.
Uby also increases this, since you need to be at least 700c+ to have a chance at killing him.
Maybe when they’re done reworking all the classes and balance is a little closer we’ll get some fine tuning of these numbers, but I don’t expect that to happen soon.
I don’t really agree with this. I agree with not getting extra loot, but not with not getting loot at all. Unless you meant that 2000 would get the exact same loot as 1000, in which case I would agree with you.
Ah, this is the divide. I view this as a spreadsheet game. I’m not here for differentiated action gameplay, I play devil may cry for that. I play this game to get bigger numbers and chase stupid rare loot.
I don’t think LE, even with 10 years of development, will ever sate this desire for more “active” gameplay. If you will.
I mean, I could use your same arguement to say that the game isn’t that much different from level 1 to 100 other than you have more ways to push your numbers out onto enemies. I view a skill more like an extension of my stats. It allows me to deliver my numbers in novel ways. When I think like that, well, it makes me happy. I honestly don’t play these games for active moment-to-moment action game decision making, I’m playing a power fantasy spreadsheet simulator and I know it. Kinda like how EVE players embrace the spreadsheet.
Not saying you can’t just ignore the numbers and play it as an action game, but I feel like you’ll be disappointed. If they made combat in LE more like PoE2 for example (respect the vision) I personally wouldn’t be happy, I actively do not like PoE2’s vision. But I’m a very old school and slow player. I hate cycle content and only play legacy long form collection style. So I think LE is a biased topic for me, as it just feels made specially just for my desires. I also grew up on Grim Dawn and love it dearly! Great game!
I think a lot of forum questions are answered by this single statement… There are those of us that enjoy the gameplay itself, moment to moment, at a granular level. A love of the process. A love of the journey, not the destination. When that’s how you feel, you play for the sake of playing, and all the progression is just a bonus.
