The current item system has too much RNG

Feedback and Suggestions
1

For every item slot on my character i have about ~8 different options what to equip. From those 8 options most are just inferior to that 1 or 2 good options, or unusable for that character build.

For example “Solarum Greaves” give 90 armor and up to 45% fire resistance and all other 8 boots don’t come even remotely close to that. That armor and fire resistance equals 2 T5 suffixes. As a result i only want “Solarum Greaves” and equipping anything different just isn’t an option, even if it has an exalted affix on it i want. On Top of that the fire resistance can roll between 30 and 45, so of course i have to hope for a pair with 45 resistance.

Now to the actual affixes on the items:
There are so many options on affixes that can roll, that finding a rare item with the right affixes seems to be impossible. Removing affixes can be done via crafting, but it’s also random. So whenever i find an item, which looks somehow promising, but i have to get rid of one affix, i already expect the worst and that’s usually true.
That leaves magic items as the only viable option. The chance to find 2 useful affixes is not that abyssmal and if both affixes are T3+ and with a bit of crafting luck, i might have an upgrade for my build.

To make matters worse 90% of the Unique items are just plain bad and the chance of finding exalted items with the right item base, that are not ruined by having the wrong affixes, is just abyssmally low.

While the crafting system is quite okay, the fact that i just put item after item in the crafting window and try to roll the affixes i want until it breaks and see how far i’ve come i just discouraging. It’s bothersome and not enjoyable.

Without a loot filter the game is basically unplayable, because the screen is overflooded with trash items.

I would really prefer that rares, uniques and exalted would be much rarer, but much better. I want the feeling of “WOAH, i found a unique/exalted item, nice!!!”.

Also the base version of items could maybe scale with the area level where you find them, so every item i find in the endgame could be a really decent option, depending on the build.

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i can understand you about the items affixes and how hard it is to find a good base and then you must be lucky whit the crafting. i have spend over 200k on gambling for a chest and craft the same chest from drops but so far i have not got lucky so can understand you. but remeber this is in beta and stuff can change and the devs want to test there ideas and fix issus from there whit fedbacks from the comunity.

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Hey I mean you are right, Right now the loot system is rather close to the D3 item loot system where you dropped all the different items with affixes for all the different classes, not balanced towards the class you are playing. I always hated this system as it was as you mentioned very difficult to get really good gear for your char.
But somehow here in LE I dont have a problem to get really good gear for my chars although to get that super good base with the right stats shouldnt be too easy IMO.
The Devs also said that the are going to introduce more (base) items along the way.

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Yeah, the crafting system makes up for the flaws of the loot system. However i dont think crafting gear is “fun”.

I miss the feeling of joy for finding good gear, because finding a good rare/exalted item is almost impossible and uniques are trash. My Problem is not that it’s too hard to get good gear - you just find too much trash and you really need a loot filter, otherwise the game is pretty much unplayable.

I know LE is in beta and i know they plan to add legendary items, but i find the current system flawed, not because it’s not possible to get good gear, but it’s unfun. That’s why i write this feedback in the hopes, the loot/item system for the final game will be good.

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Dont get me wrong I get your point although to my mind it isnt that Bad. I am really looking forward to the next patches and See what they will bring.

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Yeah, LE is not that enjoyable without a lootfilter. I can remember the time when the LF wasn’t implemented. I don’t wanna miss it :grin:.

The itemisation system in LE is very random. But there already are rules and restrictions. Here some examples:

  • Relics, helmets and armour are class specific.and drop at a vastly higher rate for the class you are playing

  • There are restrictions for affixes.so not every affix can roll on every item. Certain affixes are tied to specific item types (i.e. attack speed on gloves / block chance on shields, rings, gloves / cooldown recovery on amulets) → you are not completely free in the combination of affixes.

  • there are class specific affixes on certain items (I.e. +skill on relucs/armour, certain armour affixes)

  • offensive affixes are prefixes, defensive affixes are suffixes

I disagree that 90% of uniques are bad. Not all are BiS, but many are nice leveling items, a lot of lategame uniques are build defining. Maybe you haven’t discovered these, yet.

I agree on the matter of exalted items. The t6/t7 affixed have gotten better. But the 95% bad affix combinations on exalted items make the decision to use it or not very hard. Theres almost always a downside/ tradeoff with exalted items. They don’t feel that exciting to me, to be honest.

There was a similar thread recently where we talked about loot quality.

Imho the current itemisation is balanced around the deterministic crafting system. You can’t beat all the content without crafting. If loot quality would be improved this would (in combination with crafting) make top end gear to easy to obtain.

Increasing loot quality would need the crafting to be rebalance to be less reliable.

And the master question for me is: What us to be considered “better” in terms of items?

It’s not the affix tier alone. The best loot for everybody is when the affixes fit your build and playstyle, as well as the rest of your gear.

We both want to cap elemental resistance. While you have Fire resistance on your boots, I went with cold resistance. So for the rest of our gear we have different “best gear” we aim for. You find gloves with cold resistance and are happy. If I’d find the same item, I’d shatter it because the cold res is a dead stat for me. Or I can take it but have to switch my boots.

So if you wanted to increase loot quality you’d have to restrict certain affix combinations that somebody has to define as “better” than other.

This is not a very easy task. Imho more restrictions for affixes would accidentally close out certain builds that you have not thought of when setting the “allowed” combinations.

Do you see a solution for that issue?

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I almost never use a loot filter.
I used one when I was looking for very specific items or affixes, but most of time I play with no loot filter. When I have one, it’s only with recolor feature.
I first tried to have a more usual one, which a bunch of “hide” rules, but I don’t like it. I want to see the loot.

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@XLVI_carpo I agree with most of your points and yes, Heoborean Boots are the only other Boot Option which i consider decent enough, that should they drop with a nice exalted affix, that i surely use them. But objectively Solarum Greaves are just way better, because they also provide an additional 60 armor and can roll with 45% resist instead of 40%. So imo getting Solarum Greaves and getting cold resist elsewhere is the better option - unless you already have so much fire resist from passives, that you just don’t want any more fire resist. For Blessing you could also take Armor instead of Fire res (provided you redo the Echo until you have it).

Yes there are some good uniques (i use Death Rattle for example), but finding a unique item doesn’t create any hype for me, especially because they are so common - maybe it’s just my opinion and my experience from other games, but i am missing the joy of finding a really good item. For some uniques i pick them up and check if they got better rolls than the ones i already have in my stash, but most of the uniques i don’t even pick up anymore.

About possible affixes: Gloves can roll 16 prefixes and 22 suffixes. Having a combination of 4 affixes on a pair of gloves, that you want is like winning the lottery.

A few suggestions which would alter the loot quality:
Make combination of affixes, that are likely to appear together. If i have ignite/poison/bleed chance on an item, i will only use that item if i try to make a DoT build. So i don’t want critchance or Throwing attack damage to be my other roll, most likely. Mainstat would be okay and damage over time would be great compared with that. If that’s more likely to appear together, than on the other hand it should be less likely to get a high tier roll of it, ultimately making exalted items much more rarer. I’d be fine doing all timelines from start to finish and finding only 1 exalted item in those 200+ echoes, if it means that this exalted item makes me jump from my chair, because it’s so awesome, that i want to create a character who uses it.

For the different base versions of items:
Make them scale with the area you found them. If i find Heoborean Boots in a lvl 100 echo, then give them 90 armor and up to 45% Cold Res too. Give Iron Greaves 180 Armor and no Resistance. Give Leather Boots 45 Armor, but a nice dodge chance etc.

…What i forgot: To even out the increasing number of usable items, less items should drop in total. I don’t need to see 100 items per echo.

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I actually think the deterministic crafting is a reason to make loot drops better since you’re also kind of “guaranteed” to get the drops you’re after though crafting anyway. Making the loot drops better would just shift a bit of that to the drop side of things.

And you’ve asked what counts as “better” and mentioned that restricted affix combos might hamper build variety, but I’d say the deterministic crafting really helps with that issue because you can still craft what you need for your specific build.

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I’d like the diversity to be increased. It’s not too hard to craft 3x T5 on a white base and that’s enough already to build with. And I do want to keep checking loot drops for better bases. Just need a lot of drops - but that’s a good thing.

When trading kicks in there will be a whole other game and given the current challenge I don’t think there is diversity enough to prevent everyone gearing with fitting 20+tier items too fast.

The split between pre- and postfixes is also very clear and I’d prefer a bit more ‘messiness’ or perhaps complexity there.

All in all I like the balance they strive for. It’s a tacky one.

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Zaodon’s Guide to Loot Filters:

  1. Create 1 set of filters for each “optimal” item you want for that character in each slot. Optimal means, “Dream item”. Make this a re-color + Emphasize filter.
  2. Create 1 filter of “These are the best Affixes for my build, and if they drop, I want to see them so I can Shatter the item”. This is also a re-color filter (no emphasize).
  3. Create 1 filter to hide all Normal rarity items. Turn this on at around level 30 or so.

These are the bare minimum filters you should use. Even if these are the only filters you create, you will have a MUCH easier time playing LE than if you don’t. And remember, Loot Filter is a PART of the game. It’s meant to be used.

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I know how to use loot filters, thank you - that was not my point.

My point is that there is no hype in finding items, because you are flooded with meaningless items. Uniques are not rare, rares are not usable, exalted items drop in masses with affix combinations that make no sense together.

When i see an exalted item, i want to be hyped about finding it and not think: Well, what kind of trash do we have here?

If you read my posts, than it would be clear, that my goal is not making it easier to find good items. There are ways to compensate, like making high Tier rolls rarer and dropping less items overall.

Also if you think every casual player does enjoy creating loot filters to even be able to play the game, than LE will be only for the hardcore ARPG players.

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I hear you there, regarding the lootsplosions. Still as I progressed a bit and learned some stuff about builds, more loot became interesting.

Can’t agree on the exalted items - but that’s perhaps because I found a some usable ones (nearing 20 usable tiers in total).

I also don’t like making lootfilters. Especially if they don’t seem to be working as they should.

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I don’t know why people don’t like loot filters. Like, that really boggles my mind.

My loot filter on my Lich is different from the one on my Paladin, which in turn is different than the one on my Druid, etc. Most loot has some value to some build. If you try to keep all the loot, you’ll be buying a LOT of Stash tabs… like me. HA!

But seriously, a loot filter has nothing to do with being able to play the game. It has to do with enjoying the game itself more (using your character to kill monsters, boss fights, pushing arena, etc.) rather than mousing over loot to see if its good. Not using loot filters is exactly the same as not picking a mastery and just playing a Sentinel or Mage and being like “The Mastery trees are too much work/too complex.” That’s your issue, not the game’s issue.

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Some people do not like loot filters. The loot is the reward for breaking the pinata. Think of it this way, how many people in D2 went to Tristram just to pull Wirt’s wooden leg just to see the gold flying out.

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