This is not coming from nowhere. After doing 990 echos in empowered Ending the Storm (level 75), most of them 300+ corruption and 500+ corruption, I have not got a double exalted item a single time.
To top of that I rarely get t7 exalted itens.
with 60 runs in Age of Winter 185 corruption (actually it took me only 10 runs today to get these 3 itens) I have got a double exalted t7 iten (t7+t7) and another double exalted item t7+t6, and one exalted t7 iten.
There is no chance this is pure RNG. 990 runs vs 10 runs. Maybe empowered not really couting as a level 100 area ? I dont think its the case, because probably would have other consequences, but I really think the system is messed somewayā¦
Its that or my empowered level 75 timeline is seriously bugged with the corruption scaling the rarity of dropsā¦
The fact that higher corruption doesnāt guarantee better loot is just ludicrous in my view. In every single game the harder the content the better the rewards. Seeing how people are running 1000+ corruption and getting the same drops as I am on 100 or 300 makes me wonder what is even the point in higher corruption? Personal satisfaction of having a build good enough to kill harder mobs? Not exactly something that will keep people playing for long if you ask me.
I mean you have to consider what you are saying imo.
The biggest giant in the genre uses the same formula.
Running a 300% quant map in path of exile rewards you more items, it makes no promises on the quality of those items. You simply get more items, and getting more items rewards you with a greater chance over an equal amount of time to get a good item.
You can argue corruption might need to provide better bonuses to rarity/quantity of items.
But most games in this genre dont actually give you statistically better loot for harder content, just more pulls of a lever.
Its 100% a player mindset problem when it comes to corruption. There is a sweet spot for each build, and for some thats 200, some its 400, and some its 600, going past this sweet spot is for bragging rights. But more corruption always gives you more items of the kind you want.
This game would die way faster if it became āall items past 800 corruption are exalted with atleast t7ā or some arbitrary hard locking of affix power to corruption.
if corruption = 100% better statistics on items such as promised higher affix tiers. then you get into an extreme win more situation. The best builds get to farm the best gear, becoming even stronger and better and there is basically 0 reason to ever push a less then OP build, because corruption would be the be all end all of content.
The benefit of these games is that efficient players are rewarded with better value per hour spent, but the less efficient players are not completely left out to dry, if they get lucky they can still hit it big. Efficient players just hit it big on average much much faster.
I kind of agree with your here, but my point is something else.
Iām not demanding guaranteed better dropsā¦
Itās not a mindset problem.
My evidence is 990 runs vs 10 runs.
Iām not talking about dropping significantly more uniques, just a slightly increase In chances of dropping t7 or double exalted itens.
This has to work.
The logic is that the system is bugged / rigged, or itās bad designed, to the point there is no real advantage to getting corruption so high to have a slightly better chance to dropping better itens.
itās hard to collect evidence as most people will assume itās just RNG or the layers of āluckā
After a thousand echoes run I feel cheated. In the moment Iām not entering the polemic subject about lack of end game content or boring and repetitive monoliths, I enjoy the game and I trust the devs to bring a fair and fun system, but getting drops like this make me question if the game has a system well designed. Or if it has some kind of bug that is hard to notice / collect evidence.
Well I think you are confused then, as far as I am currently aware, rarity is what you gain from corruption, and what rarity does is grant you more higher rarity items. Exalted is a rarity tier. Rarity does not increase the odds of getting higher tiered affixes.
You are if you think that rarity should grant you greater chances at higher tiered affixes.
Running at 500 corruption gives you more exalted items, and thus farming for 10 hours at corruption 500 greatly improves your chances to see a t7 over farming at 100 corruption.
Your results were just an unlucky chance. You happened to find the t7 on a lower corruption because its not impossible. I got my Rav void from a 100 corruption empowered mono they just popped out of a monster. By farming high corruption gaspars I would have had a much higher chance to get them.
I think you will find that your experience is just part of the genre as a whole and not strictly a problem with LE in general.
Some people walk into white maps in PoE and drop a mirror, running higher tier content gives you 10x the chance at a mirror. But a mirror is still so rare that you will still not see one for 15k hours etc.
The system is not rigged/bugged, its just not working in a way that leads to linear progression gain. At the end of the day, sometimes lucky sometimes not.
Ok, so your results ācouldā have simply been a proof case for RNG, or it could show that there is an imbalance. The only way to prove one way or another is to do the exact same number of monos in each and see what the results are, and this would have to be done more than just 2 times total to get a reliable picture.
Thatās fine. The problem is that Last Epoch doesnāt exactly shower you in exalted items at corruption 300, 500 or 1000. You get literally the same amount and quality of loot you get at 100. At least I havenāt noticed any difference.
As for the ābiggest giant in the genreā using the same formula - doesnāt mean that everyone should be doing the same thing. Diablo 4 for example will give better rolled legendaries as well as unique items on higher difficulties, which makes total sense because why would I otherwise want to gimp myself just to get the same drops as I would on world tier 1.
You just described what every looter shooter is, mate The whole reason we play them is to become powerful and make those perfect builds. Look at PoE and builds that just delete screens of enemies. No-one plays it to run around and struggle against every weak mob they encounter. Those who want to experiment can and will always do that. Those who want to minmax one build can do that too.
I agree. I donāt need the whole ground to be littered with exalted items at corruption 1000 but I need to feel that there were enough drops for my time to not have been wasted.
I apologize then, In fact I knew that theoretically rarity gives the chance of more rare drops, but I also thought it would slightly increase the chance of these drops to be t6 T7.
As you explained by dropping more you have more chances that one of them would be t7, double exalted, etc ā¦
The problem is that we donāt feel this. I know this is very subjective, but the sensation and the observation is that we get almost the same amount of rare drops comparing higher corruptions( 200 x 300 x 500 x 1000).
And I will go further, from the discussion in reddit a veteran player stated some impressions of his own, and I strongly have the same perception with number 2.
"I have noticed some of very similar effects after >1300h of play. But iād summarize them differently:
There seems to be a āmap instanceā wide bonus or āpenaltyā to drops. That means that sometimes a map rolls with high chance to drop loot and you want to clear it. For example you kill Meruna Ogres and nearly each will drop T7 items. While on next map with even more item drop chance they drop nothing.
2a) There seems to be a bonus for āreturningā: like hunt Stormcarved for 4h and receive little items. Switch to dragon to hunt for relic there, boom a burst of T7 exalts. Same happens with 1st runs to Julra and other dungeons.
2b) there seems to be a penalty for overplaying same content, diminishing returns really"
All this brings me to the already polemic subject , that increasing corruption might be kinda useless In this game, and right now the endgame is focused in T4 dungeons and grinding monoliths.
Players that build up stronger Chars and focus getting the most of the game hardly have any real more rewards for doing increasing harder content.
Iām not talking that the top builds should have strong advantages by farming harder enemies, but should have a way to balance this better than it is now. Some slightly little tiny chance to receive a more rewarding drop.
Exactly this. Theres gotta be a way that a player perceives that his time and his dedication to make a strong build is not worthless.
At this point I bring the well know Grim Dawn Crucible Arena. I think it has a more balanced way to reward based in RNG but also based in how far can you go, thus how strong is your build.
Without hijacking the topic, I think that this statement is true for a lot of issues in LE right now. The issue of progression, whether subjective/objective good/bad is quite a sticking point across various mechanics in the game; skill power, balance, corrpution, xp, item drops, item power.
Yeah, its a power curve issue, the biggest problem is how do they keep core to their stated ideology.
This game is supposed to be catering to all levels of players, experienced, casual, etc.
if you reward corruption scaling too hard, the game is no longer rewarding and intriguing for casual players, so you burn that bridge.
if you dont reward corruption enough, the the high level players complain they made broken builds for no reason.
I think they are going to have to decide who their target audience is, and let the other one wilt. its too cursed of a problem to try and appease both sides.
I am more on the casual side myself, and I think if they give corruption to much value, they are cornering themselves out of the market they are excelling at right now which is a more laid back casual focused game.
Corruption presents a huge problem in perceived value that it should give, I dont think the devs intended to have people doing 800 corruption etc tbh, but because balance is a bit wonky right now things get out of hand.
Agreed. The old cliche about trying to please everyone springs to mind.
I also see it in regards to the games longevity. It would be financially logical in the short term to go for the bulk of the potential player base (which I think they are doing with things like MP), but the danger of balancing and designing things for the short term, is that it it becomes harder to expand without re-hashing things negatively impacting whatever player base exists - and expanding they will have to do to aim for than 10 year game mark they are hoping for.
Who knows, I could be talking crap, but I definitely dont think these issues are easy.
I think it recieves a proper value from playersā¦ Corruption is the very high end game in LE, thatās why its been talked everytime. Itās also where you can challenge your build when everything else is done.
Itās the only thing that sometimes hold the players. If you follow the community you will see a good amount of posts here and in Reddit complaining about the lack of endgame content.
Arena is a messed black hole that is put aside and they donāt talk anything about it. It needs a better and less tedious design.
If they release some more content I could agree that too much value is being given to corruption.
I donāt mind the game being accessible for casual players, and even being weighted to this side. In fact LE is great in this aspect. I am casual, but I also like to test powerful builds and play it to the limit.
It seems that some of you are worried that some changes can be game breaking or heavily in favor of one the groups, and in my honest opinion this problem is far from that.
The thing that is too unbalanced to me is that grinding to greater gear and to harder content does not bring a full enjoyment or feeling of satisfaction with the actual rewards. Casual players already have access to any drop in the game, they also can do every content of the game, most builds can farm 200+ corruption. T4 dungeons being the hard part most times. They have chances of dropping exalted, double exalted, uniques, LP uniques. How come slightly increasing the potential of rewards for more dedicated players or more powerful builds can change the experience of a casual player ?
Of course it has to be carefully planned, but we have a great team here capable of anything.
Itās a natural progression to me, you do harder content and you have the perception of getting access to better things. When I grind to 500 + , to 700+, to 900+ corruption I expect something more than just a questionable higher amount of drops.
This game is great right now. Itās the best I could find to casually have some entertainment, without pressure of never getting to the important parts or the need to do daily quests, weekly rewards. But it has so many more potential to be greater.
Some polish in certain areas is necessary, some improvement and better design to repetitive tasks.
The whole reason we play them is to become powerful and make those perfect builds. Look at PoE and builds that just delete screens of enemies. No-one plays it to run around and struggle against every weak mob they encounter. Those who want to experiment can and will always do that. Those who want to minmax one build can do that too.