I will comment when I want to. I don’t care whether he’s for or against trade, it was your crass statement I was pulling you up on, and you’ve managed another one, well done…arrogance is not pretty.
It’s arrogant and crass to you only because you clearly didnt understand the exchange that took place. Your response is completely misinterpreting what I said.
Exactly, he made POE and its horrible trading system which now dominates that game and has obliterated the drop rates for everyone. If anything, he is the literally last person who knows anything about ARPGs.
He’s produced and developed the best ARPG for the past 8 years, I too am not a fan of what PoE’s trading economy has become but to state something like “he knows nothing about ARPGs” is ridiculous and very telling of the type of person you are. Your arrogance is overwhelming your ability to form a solid argument for your opinion and that’s why you’re being written off on the subject.
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I’m sure that’s why all of us POE players are coming here to LE. Because Chris is “special” and “knows more about ARPGs than everyone else.”
Pfft.
He’s just a coder, like me and a million other people. His opinion isn’t special, and unlike me, he has proven he’s clueless about Trade in ARPGs.
sorry? what are your credentials again?
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Please go read about the Logical Fallacy “Appeal to Authority”. If you base your belief on the credentials of the poster, you’re fooling yourself. Good ideas stand on their own, no need of a credential.
Diablo (original) was a stand-alone PC game, with no online play much less trade. It was INSANELY popular, so much so, it launched an entire Franchise of games.
Trading is NOT part of APRGs any more than Fishing is (and yes, I saw that “Fishing, when?” thread and it took all my energy to stay out of it.)
And if I think your ideas are bad? who is right?
Btw. You might want to aquaint yourself with a better understanding of appealing to authority. Appealing to authority when you yourself can objectively verify the integrity of an idea is bad. Appealing to false authority is bad. But there are plenty of valid reasons to listen to the arguments and opinions of Authorities.
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Whoever presents better facts and evidence. I have Diablo 1 on my side. I also have every failed Trading system in other ARPGs on my side. I have this thread with nearly 600 posts describing how RMT/Bots ruin games with trading. I mean, I have yet to even hear any argument that Trade makes the game itself better. The only arguments for trade are that people like it and can get really into it. That’s a horrible argument and has literally nothing to do with ARPGs. And even if you give that point full credit, it loses immensely to the RMT/Bots, Loot Balance Tilted towards Trade, and Removes Challenge arguments thus far presented.
Diablo 2 and POE are still the better games. And btw. There is battle.net with trade even for D1.
Even if you like to think POE “failed” it is still the best ARPG in the market. You should visit the forums and see how many years people have been saying POE is “dying”.
This thread is biased towards non-trading only because people who trades haven’t even given any real attention to LE yet simply because MP and trade isn’t available. There is a far, far wider market for players who wants to engage in trade than those who only want SSF.
Diablo 1 became a smash hit far before BattleNet allowed multiplayer. That came later on, and is not “Trade” (because it’s not really multiplayer in the modern sense). In fact, LE will have that same type of Trade (you can trade intra-party).
An ARPG can succeed while its trading system failed. POE is definitely an example of that.
I fail to see what new arguments “real” traders can make here other than “We like it.” People like Fishing, too. Doesn’t mean APRGs will “fail” without Fishing.
Edit: I am also not against all Trade. I am against a Trading Economy which affects Drop Rates. If you care to propose an idea on how to have active trading that has absolutely 0 effect on Drop Rates, I’m all ears (er, eyes, this is a forum… 
).
great but in the real world trades don’t happen in a vacuum. when you have tens of thousands of players interacting with each other thats when you get the economy and depth
except you need to play the game to buy items in the first place. the difference is you can use things you don’t need to buy items you do need, which creates an incentive to take an interest in things that aren’t just specific to your character. suddenly you’re not just taking a small minded approach to each league, you’re considering everyone elses builds and whether things that drop might be useful for them and not just you. if you want to make the argument that the best items in the game should come from killing bosses and not trade I’d agree with you, but that doesn’t require gimping it completely
trade does much, much more than that. maybe I can write a more in depth post later but without a matchmaking system its the backbone of multiplayer. don’t let one game that handled it terribly scare you away from a feature that was worked fine in thousands of other games
- Name a single thing trade does other than make it quicker to find items.
- Name a single ARPG that does trading that does not affect drop rates and/or have bots/RMT.
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Meaningful player interactions and another way to play and enjoy the game. Just because you don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have it, princess.
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None, that’s not a good enough reason to not have trade. Any game with an economy and trade has this issue.
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Last Epoch cannot go live without fishing. And weaving. And flower arranging. And… whatever pet thing I like. Your logic is deeply flawed. Trade does nothing mechanical but allow players to get items easier (i.e. faster than the Drop Rate in the Loot Table.)
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It’s an insanely good reason not to have trade. Proven time and again from games that get ruined by Bots and RMT. You literally spelled out in your own reply why its bad - “Any game with an economy and trade has this issue.”
EHG is making the right call to not have trade in LE.
I won’t argue in circles with you because I have better things to do with my time and don’t actually care one way or the other if trade (The Bazaar) is in the game, I will leave you with this though:
If you think RMT isn’t going to be an issue regardless then you’re dead wrong. With the ability to trade with group members you’re going to have a decent amount of people selling runs of harder content to those who can’t get there themselves i.e. selling items drops, etc.
You’ll also have bots to farm for gold, crafting mats, etc. There’s no escaping these things.
I get that this thread has way too many posts to read all of them, but we’ve proposed ways to eliminate bots and RMT. The Bazaar, as described by EHG, also eliminates RMT. Paying someone to group with you to “carry” you into harder content to obtain an item (not 100% chance to even drop) is so rare, and does not affect the Drop Tables or cause EHG to alter drop rates, so I really don’t care about that.
This derailed a bit, and I would ask to stop trying to make comparisons to real world economical principles - they only apply in a very limited, extremely basic way, and the core of this discussion is really more about what Trade adds/offers/complicates/hurts in terms of pure ARPG gameplay.
In this respect, if you go back and read most of the thread, it wasn’t really about RMT or 3rd party sellers either, although that certainly always plays a role in any game with an economy, it’s really more about the core gameplay loop and whether the ability to trade is beneficial or detracts from the gameplay, depending on implementation, limitations, etc.
Trading is a must, just because of build defining items, that drop on avarage after 300h+ of gameplay. Anything said against trading falls irrelevant under it. If the rarity of uniques that literally enable builds wasn’t so scares, the we can talk about not having a trade economy.
That’s part of the appeal of continuing to play though: finding an item that unlocks a new build, or incentivizes you to make a new character. They’re also great chase goals and long term motivation.
Making them too comfortably obtainable goes counter to the philosophy behind an SSF-oriented ARPG, imo.
Besides, LE is not currently in a state where you are “gated” from progress by not having certain uniques, and by being able to respec at any point you have the freedom to adapt your build anytime you do obtain such an item.
You cannot look at this system the same way as you would look at PoE, for instance.