You are right in this regard as we have discussed crafting at extensive lengths, there is in part of the issue with our individual value systems. The risk is not synergized with the current reward system. For some its easy, others they will never find what they are looking for.
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I mean, thatâs not quite true. Gold has multiple sinks in D3, for example, and had its value determined by the market and the relation to its sink value. The AH didnât work for the game overall for other reasons, but that basic functionality worked.
I donât think the lore argument really has any merit in this context. I think EHG want gold to be a viable currency to base trade around, but I donât think theyâve figured out how to accomplish that correctly just yet.
D3 gold was pointless, utterly pointless
You sold items to buy items to buy items to hoard gold. the ONLY thing you could spend money on was crafting rare weapons that 1/100000 was better than an Echoing Fury
People wanted gold to sell it irl
D3 with its RMAH and poorly implemented economy was the worst example to use. I know I made loads of money selling items until it got shut down from legal action.
In this regard, I believe that balance & practicality would have to trump in-game lore.
I didnât make âloads,â because I didnât play it a ton in that era, but I used to farm gold to buy items from AH to sell on RMAH. That was its real purpose as far as I was concerned. Like you said, D3 is probably not a great choice if looking for an example of how gold had meaning in a game.
On the one hand, it was a terrible game at the time, but on the other, I wish Iâd used it to make more money, lol.
I stopped PoE in part because trading was so lackluster.
You need a new Item to progress? Have fun looking browsing around on the webpage and whispering people âŚ
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Yeah, I think Mike said they want to have asynchronous trading for pretty much that reason. Doesnât necessarily mean they will, but they recognize the issue.
It can be a two-tiered system currency and barter. That does make a bazaar. Many countries around the world will not engage in a fiat currency economy, no value to them but will barter for an exchange.
Note: Not every situation is like this, do not broadly apply it to mean anything but a relating a personal experience as an observer.
An example I commonly use is: There was a man that wanted to obtain an item from a woman that was advanced in age. This items was a momento to her it has sentimental value but to her there was no amount of currency she would give up in exchange. The man asked her what she needed done in exchange for he saw the âoutsideâ world value in the item. She stated she needed the gate to her walkway fixed and some other minor repair work to the fence around that gate. To her that momento was worth giving up in exchange for an improved condition. The man completed the work he obtained the item and a way they went both satisfied.
this is basic trading services, but you know money is the common thing everyone can use in a normal society. I dont call a plumber because my sink is stuck and barter items I have available, no they want money⌠and as I have said multiple times money is useless in LE
Again, motivation factor. Another personal experience: I worked on an island that has a very short airport landing. This island has a native work policy but you could not pay them to do a thing. You could offer 200 an hour and they would sit on the beach drink beer and get as little done as possible.
As soon as the contractor figured out what would motivate them. He took action by getting 3 old 55 gallon oil drums, cleaned them out, cut a lid in the side and flipped them over into a large grilling pits. He called this a traditional celebration in honor of them and took many of the islanders customs and incorporated them into the cook out. This was a huge success. The islanders celebrated then in exchange for the feast the islanders worked like mad for 3 days straight to show their thanks for finally attempting to understand them. The islanders and contractor came to an agreement and even got the local government to make it an annual holiday.
Nobody would have bought gold if it was âpointlessâ. I donât want to go too far into the ancient history of other games here though, LE is definitely not doing a Buyout Auction House, that much seems certain.
I only mentioned D3 because the basic functionality of gold sinks ingame for crafting/upgrading etc vs market value worked. It also impressively demonstrated how ease-of-access to Trade had disastrous ramifications for loot balance and the overall gameplay feel in an ARPG. I see some people saying âno, it was the itemizationâ, but in fact the itemization was designed that way because that level of Trade was built-in from the get-go.
In any case, thatâs what we donât want (and very likely wonât get anyway).
But gold will likely be the base currency if it isnât a pure barter exchange, so it will need some more uses for it to keep from inflating the market massively over time.
Thereâs so much wrong with this post⌠both in fact and in logic. I donât want to dive down another rabbit hole about it right now, though. Iâll just leave it as a âstrongly disagree!â
I mean, thatâs what this thread is for, discussing the hypotheticals of Trade. What exactly do you disagree with here? Itâs generally understood that this is how D3 Vanilla failed, down to the horseâs mouth vis-a-vis the developers explaining it as such when they transitioned to the 2.0 model and the reasons for it.
Yeah, I was too busy to deal with it right then, and thereâs plenty of rabbit to hole here. After rereading it, I realize I overstated the wrongness of your other post, so thatâs my bad. There are some points I do strongly disagree with, but not the whole post. Iâll try to keep it as brief as possible, though.
Itâs unclear what they are doing. Iâm not sure they even have a concrete idea yet. Weâll have to see. If theyâre going for a barter system or bid system, my interest in the game will become extremely limitedârelegated to about the same amount I now give Torchlight 1 or Sacred 2, just games I play once in a great while to scratch some niche itch for a little bit. Thatâs just my taste, though, and not a point of material fact for the game as a whole.
This is a very roundabout way of repeating the often stated fallacy of D3 and trade within ARPGs in general. D3 showed one way that trade can fail in an ARPG, but many took it as trade will always fail in an ARPG. Then PoE proved everyone wrong on several levels (while also failing in its own ways for different reasons).
The point here is that the D3 devs over-emphasized the importance of trade and fell into the trap of over-correcting for it, which lead to all dimensions being crappy. Thisâand PoEâare why I think the game needs a more (old school) WoW-like approach: Most things have some value, are tradeable, easy to buy/sell, but the very best stuff has to be farmed or made yourself (due to BoP conditions, in WoWâs case). This allows a healthy economy to flourish without having to destroy the itemization/progress side of the game. It only allows you to use trade to attain a certain level of power (roughly 75-80% of cap), which is a great balancing factor in terms of both accessibility of content and still preserving motivation to push.
This part I agree with very much. Itâs part of why I want respec to use gold instead of destroying your skill pointsâthe other part being how stupid that system is anyway, as outlined in other threads on the topic.
Itâs worth proposing some other worthy gold sinks too. Immediate options that come to mind for me:
- A vendor that sells random assortment of shards, sometimes rarer ones
- An option to buy arena keysânot just sell them
- Perhaps an expensive option to do with fractured items. Maybe (a) restore it to a non-fractured state for 100k or (b) allow the item to have one last crafting attempt on it (will still be fractured) for 50k. Just hypotheticals, these could really be one of many other similar ideas.
- An expensive option to guarantee your next gamble is unique/set, say 250k.
The skyâs the limit on this sort of thing, really, but until we have more varied/interesting loot, the options for gold sinks will be similarly limited simply for having fewer channels to interact/spend through.
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I feel the same way. Maybe if rares had more affixes that might change? But with 4 affixes itâs really not that hard to craft decent gear and get to empowered echoes. I donât know what trading would improve.
Well⌠I keep my view of letting trade thrive and forget it exists for all balance purposes. But if i was to limit what can be traded and add a gold sink to current LE i would do two things:
1- Fractured items canât be sold in the bazaar. This ensures people will not be able to simple buy perfect gear and will use the bazzar mostly for valuable affixes, bases and uniques. It keeps the value of everything that drops and reduce the value of crafted gear (which is one of the massive problems in poe, where only crafted items have value and mostly only dedicated crafters generate those items via either RMT or flipping).
2- Add a system similar to the paragon system of d3. Where you can level up to level 100 without restrictions, after that you can pay x gold to unlock level 101, then 2x to unlock level 102, 4x to unlock level 103, etc⌠This could become a massive and fun gold sink. And since we have arena as an âinfinite scallingâ content it should not be a massive powercreep problem.
this is something i disagree with. i like to be done with a char at some point so i can move on and make another one. infinite scaling of character progression is not a good design IMO. we also now have corruption in the monolith that (i believe) can scale infinitely, but does that mean the char should also do? not my cup of tea.
No trading for me means this game will be another wolcen vs 2.0 play a bit on start and never open it again.
Without min maxim my char i donât have any reason to play again.
The problem with SSF is that take to much to perfect your char.
Game isnât that hard and you donât need t6-t7 but give a challenge for some people.
Thanks but no thanks to no trading and please donât balance the game around SSF.
Even Grim Dawn has trading in multiplayer
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