The Case against a Trade Economy

[Albinosaurus]

@miffy

LE has a very different approach here, so it’s not directly comparable in that way. But outside of that, it’s fairly comparable.

I just don’t think it is. I cared way more about loot in PoE for way longer, even when it was still new (like Ambush league new).

@miffy

The fact that items are restricted to 4 mods currently actually goes a very long way in making it feel good, in my opinion. PoE’s loot has much greater ranges and much smaller % of being great, because it is designed with Trade existing to begin with.

This might be the reason this game never gets to a point where trade is appropriate. It overly constrains itself. Sure, it makes it a little more deterministic toward progressing SSF, but it will likely hurt the game in the long run, especially in terms of longevity and retention.

@miffy

I’d be interested what exactly you are looking to change in the itemization so drastically, you can simply point me to a thread where you discuss at length though.

I don’t think this has been discussed at any great length yet. Might be worthy of its own topic.

@miffy

What precisely do you think is missing in the itemization to make it more “exciting?”

Well, I’ve offered a few ideas in this thread already, but it really could be any number of things. The core issue I take with loot as it is really comes down to the crafting. It paradoxically makes it easier to progress SSF, but makes any reason for trade moot unless you did want to make all the best stuff available on an AH or something. It just doesn’t have the variety, depth, or functional flexibility (items that have more than one use) to justify it. In short: It’s too basic.

I think of other games when I think of interesting loot. A few examples (out of the sea of them):

1. Warframe

• Mods require investment to make powerful and there is reason to have multiple copies that aren’t all maxed out.
• You buy most of your equippable (and tradeable) stuff in pieces, which are generally target farmed, and you assemble them into something new and (potentially) exciting.
• There are crafting materials that require time/effort to farm which are used to make some of these things (Plains of Eidolon and Fortuna come to mind here)
• Certain keys to access limited content can be traded and has some value

2. Path of Exile

• The crafting materials are the currency. I don’t really think gold will make the cut for LE. However, the crafting materials in PoE have multiple uses.
• There are content key fragments (almost collectibles in a sense) that require farming to collect and hold worth to other players because that content is limited.
• The socket system is a whole other dimension of loot beyond just the affixes. LE doesn’t need to copy this precisely, but coming up with another dimension for item optimization would be worth looking into.

3. Torchlight 1 & 2

• Spell scrolls that teach any character (and their companion) new skills, regardless of class.
• Diablo 2 style gems to socket into gear (honestly, hard to go wrong with this system).
• Fishing provides consumables for your companion (but for LE, these could just be buffs) as well as temporary buff pots. Would be cool to have a scroll that you cast at the start of a map/echo that last for the duration of it or until you die (whichever is first).

4. Grim Dawn

• Consumables that enchant your items with new stats, skills, auras, etc. This is easily one of the coolest features in any ARPG on the market.
• Consumables that provide buffs or deal damage/status effects to nearby enemies.
• MIs are another awesome feature you just don’t see enough of in the genre.

There are really countless things they could draw inspiration from. It doesn’t have to all be the gear you directly equip on your character, but that needs help too. I realize a lot of this requires a lot more development time, and I’m fine with that. I just think these kinds of things should come before trade because it doesn’t make sense to think about all the ways we can make trade shitty when we have so very little that is even worth bothering with.

It’s worth noting that useful consumables can do a lot to drive an economy. This should not be overlooked.

I know MP is coming up on the radar soon, and players will expect to be able to trade with their friends/party at least, I think it’s perfectly fine to just have a system to drop items on the ground for each other instead of an actual trade interface for the time being.

I want them to wait on trade until they can get it right, and from my perspective, that’s quite a ways away. It’s not because the team isn’t able or competent. It’s simply that it takes a lot more work before we get there.