100% agree. I’m glad EHG sticks to what was decided (with the help of the community) a long time ago. The “True offline” was a pretty big deal to a lot of people. It’s unfortunate but there is no perfect solution that will please everyone.
Maybe EHG should reimburse those who wants it ?
…And apologize for the “ABSOLUTE UNFAIRNESS” (sorry but I find it a funny hyperbole)
This is assuming peoples views/conflating the issue.
Have shop in online mode, let people buy things from that, have an option to authenticate/ do something every x days (which you decide if you want to do again when its run out) to do a check again, that will let you have that stuff offline.
And even beyond that, theres people, many of them, who have cosmetics already unlocked, with no shop having even been in the game, that wont be able to use those offline.
EHG are doing the usual thing of trying to make out what people are asking for is something different, in this case it’s pushing the idea that what people are asking for is offline, but with forced authentication for shop purchases. That’s not what people are asking for.
Having two forms of offline, a true offline and a not-true offline is a lot to maintain and develop, even if you don’t think it is.
EHG is still a small indie team. Demanding they make two versions or two forms of offline just so a tiny portion of the community can use MTX cosmetics in offline is unrealistic.
In a perfect world sure, but people here are making assumptions on how a store-front and development works.
Okay, show me how that can be realistically done under a limited time-frame with as few developers as possible.
Why should EHG, a small team, dedicate a lot of work hours on this rather than say push for new patches and bringing us closer to 1.0?
You’re the ones being a tad bit unrealistic here. I bought into this game for online AND offline. I have characters and builds in both. I know an MTX shop requires server auth and people freaked out and screamed at EHG in the past for even suggesting making offline not a TRUE offline experience.
You can’t have it both ways.
Again, be realistic. Offer up REAL solutions instead of wishful thinking. It would be nice as an option, but this isn’t a perfect world.
No one has put a timeframe or said it has to happen now. Thats why the post asks them to look into it. Limited DLC has also been offered as an option and EHG_Kain said they considered that but the issue was overtime there would be way too many DLCS that they cannot remove from steam. The solutions are there in this thread. You are seemingly reading past them.
As for screaming about True offline, You can’t generalize. Show me a post where I freaked out and screamed about True offline. No one is asking for absolutes. Again as Auora said above Stop “pushing the idea that what people are asking for is offline, but with forced authentication for shop purchases. That’s not what people are asking for.”
Can they implement limited DLC in the steam store for offline players like they had planned? Wishful thinking, I guess, cos it has not been done before.
Can they offer tools for offline players to create and mod their own cosmetics or skins? Wishful thinking, I guess, cos it has not been done before.
Can they encrypt cosmetic files (purchased, downloaded and installed from the LE website) so they can be downloaded and used in an offline client? Wishful thinking, I guess, cos it has not been done before.
If there will be no offline cosmetics, then can they implement a few cosmetics earnable in game during gameplay? So offline players can have a few crumbs? Wishful thinking, I guess, cos it has not been done before.
I do not need to be a dev to offer complete solutions. Neither do I know it all. I am simply suggesting ideas.
No ones asking for two versions of offline, heck even thinking that we’re getting a different version of offline for this is wrong. They’re the same version of the game, as we’ve been told repeatedly when bringing up the problems with having content hit offline mode at the same time as online.
If you take a stroll down memory lane and look for all the topics that are offline related you’ll see a lot of people who got almost agressive if people asked themself what a complete offline mode will be good for these days.
All the posts about internet services outside of the western world that are terrible and datavolume issues and whatnot were a bit suprising to me but I got the point why many people wanted a fully offline mode.
It’s strange to se people advocating now for an offline mode with online services because one can’t happen with the other. People fought for a fully offline mode and they got what they wished for.
In the patch overview video the dev said Le will release later this year so I think you have no chance to change what we have right now. With the system in place I can’t see an easy solution to have MTX in the offline mode outside of selling a bazzillion of DLC packs.
Again, no ones asking for a forced online check, just the option to do it if they want to.
I get this but just checking in don’t transfer data to an offline source. It’s to completely sperate systems you talk about. I think there isn’t even an option to transfer an online char into the offline mode.
I’m no developer and I have 0 knowledge about coding but I highly doubt there is a way to transfer online data to an offline system and the other way arround because they are not connected. At least that’s my point of view but I have no idea and I just take a guess and go with what my common sense is telling me… well my common sense was wrong as well but I can’t see this happening.
Well yeah, anyway it would work would be easily exploitable to unlock everything, but thats why the posts are pointing at that. Because the only reason to not put in some way to do this, is because it would have no protection at all. The points made about not real offline modes etc… are becuase that’s what you’d have to do, to do this in a way that offered some level of protection (it’d still be exploitable), but that’s not what anyones been raising the point to ask for, no ones saying they want that lol
I don’t even talk about exploiting or modding the pieces into the game and whatever. I realy think (and maybe I’m a fool for it) that a offline unit can’t communicate with an online unit and the other way arround.
It needs a work arround like a physical deliver from a to b. Best case you can generate a code in the online shop that includes all the stuff you bought an use it one time to make all the stuff you bought online available offline in a “Redeem your code” style of way. Another way would be to store MTX client sided as well to make it available to use after it was bought.
There are otpions but I have no idea what options are realistic and what options are wishfull thinking. I still prefer a full offline mode over some mtx for all the people out there with shit internet or no inet at all or traffic limits and whatnot 
but that’s just me and my wishfull thinking.
I think most people aren’t intrested in offline gaming anyway and I think there will be no loss if someone comes up with a savegame editior to steal MTX stuff and I still think that’s the part that is the most unintresting.
The most important part is EHG delivers a full offline mode as promised.
oh the code ideas actually neat, like how we used to have cd keys to prove we owned a game to install it lmao
I’m always for low tech solutions if possible.
The issue is that the general vibe in these threads (in which there are multiple) is that they want these features – the ability to purchase cosmetics in offline – for the supporter packs. Those packs are time-based, so there’s definitely a time-frame involved.
It was offered as a suggestion and EHG gave a valid reason as to why it’s not feasible. That’s not the same as them just not considering it. It wasn’t a good, reliable option. It wasn’t realistic. You can’t just claim solutions are being offered when the very one you reference is unrealistic and pretty much impossible for the very reasons Kain remarked on. That’s not a solution, that’s a half baked wish.
I think the issue here is while I’m speaking in a general term, you’re assuming I’m referring to you specifically. I am not. I don’t know you, I don’t know your posting history beyond today.
If you do any sort of reading through past threads regarding offline mode and how it would be implemented, you’d know the vast majority of people would not accept anything else but TRUE-offline.
Also didn’t you generalize me as an online-only player who was just here to rebuke you? Glass houses, and all.
Again, you haven’t seen those threads then, I guess. People were screaming at EHG since they promised a true offline experience during their Kickstarter and on their Steam page, and anything less than that was unacceptable. People were 100% speaking in absolutes. Maybe not you, but the majority were.
I’m confused on this point from the both of you. Do you expect EHG to not protect their transactions? To not have some form of authorization to confirm purchases in offline? That’s not realistic at all. They aren’t going to be throwing Denuvo on here, but having some form of DRM for a product that needs purchasing is the bare-minimum to protect their interests.
They cannot feasibly do it any other way. They need something to drive people to purchasing from them directly, thus there needs to be some form of server authorization.
What people are asking for is to be treated in good faith and to be trusted to be honest and not cheat in the skins or fake a transaction for cosmetics, which isn’t how this works. This isn’t some personal attack against you or anyone else, this isn’t me claiming you’re not honest, this is me stating factually that in order to protect their MTX shop they cannot rely on the good faith of strangers. They need some form of DRM/ server authorization.
Adding any form of authorization, even an optional one that only is required on purchase, would introduce a caveat to the promise of true-offline.
You’d have to be the one to tell everyone else in those past threads that allowing some form of extra online-connection to their true-offline experience is necessary, because EHG won’t. That’s not fair to put on them.
You stated above that Kain gave a valid reason why this isn’t feasible. Just because you disagree with his reasoning doesn’t mean it’s any less viable. Steam DLCs are less controlled by the developers since they’re under the Steam banner. Limited-time DLCs are even more annoying to maintain, not even considering what would happen if they had to remove a skin for one reason or another.
In the current system they could just refund EP, maybe even reimburse people with a bit extra as an apology. If it’s through Steam though? Yeah, right. That’s not happening.
Why do you think it’s not possible? I’ve asked Mike personally about mods for offline mode and he’s stated that EHG’s official stance on it is that he’s interested in it and wouldn’t really aid or hinder it. If you want to create mods for offline mode, then do it. EHG isn’t going to stop you.
This might come across as rude – I’m sorry if it does – but do you know how encryption works? You need some way to unlock it. Either through server-side DRM or through some form of password authentication. The former, again, would remove the promise of true-offline. The latter isn’t really safe and is just prone to people posting the password on Reddit or forum posts so people get official skins for free.
How would these encrypted cosmetic files be saved? How would they be unlocked? Give me a reasonable answer that doesn’t take away from EHG’s promise to leave offline mode a TRUE offline experience.
Then you’d have;
Players opting to play offline over online, thus harming profits for EHG. That may sound funny or like it’s not a problem, but it kind of is.
People in online complaining twice as much about how they can’t earn buyable skins through in-game content in online.
If you want people to respect and support the offline mode of the game, you need to mutually respect online players and their opinions on the matter. It’s also not like the game won’t have cosmetic appearances for gear. All uniques will eventually have their own 3D art to match their 2D ones, and more sets will be introduced for both online and offline.
Yeah, you don’t need to be a developer to offer suggestions and advice, but you should absolutely be reasonable and look at it from the perspective of one.
Also no one in any of these threads have offered up, as you state, a “complete solution.”
Many have made suggestions, some alright, some bad, but a complete solution has yet to be posted.
There, a giant post so you cannot claim I just skimmed or read past things.
There already is a solution:
A) Want cosmetics? Play online.
B) Don’t want cosmetics? Play offline.
It’s simple, elegant, and doesn’t require any additional development resources.
I mean hell, I would love to play in offline mode only, don’t have to worry about lag, disconnects, etc… but, trade would be nice. Maybe EHG should also cater to my specific desires, and code up a special offline marketplace, where I can choose to update online, with a button, to get the latest trade offerings from other offline players. That way, I can still take part in trade, without having to play that pesky online mode.
100% agreed. It never made sense to me that they want to lock out players willing to give them money on the off-chance that someone, who was too cheap to actually support the devs, will pirate that was well.
People who pirate will pirate no matter what. There’s no need to punish legitimate supporters for the expected behavior of some bad actors. It doesn’t make sense.
As an example: I was a latecomer to POE and I hated the stock look of the Templar — I hate it because it’s ugly and I NEVER play in groups (not even once). I just want my character to look cool. I don’t care if no one ever sees it but me. Just off the top of my head, I’ve spent north of $600 on POE MTX already.
I would have been willing to do so for EHG too because I like LE a lot — a lot, lot more — than POE.
Just to get some clarity on what your trying to say here:
How does having no way to use cosmetics offline, push people who want to play offline, to buy cosmetics?
Or is the take that if you could do piracy to get cosmetics, that people who would of bought them for use online, would now decide to just paly offline. Because I hate to break it to you, but that argument can be used about an offline mode being bad even better, like, significantly better. Like, you can straight up go find stuff about that type of thing, it’s 100% something they’ve sacrificed already, for the existence of a non online mode.
That’s why it feels like a terrible reason for cosmetics.
Don’t worry, people would complain about that as well, whether it’s not quite absolutely unfair to require offline people to have mtx-with-extra-steps when online players don’t or something else. And it would still require people to go online to both get and validate the code.
The game data files will have all of the mtx (& everything else) in it whether you own the mtx or not. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to see other players mtx (teh horrorz!).
As somebody who used to develop encryption software (in the general sense, so as to avoid getting in the weeds) and worked with it for years and within related fields for over a decade, there are ways a company could provide offline mtx such that the user would do a single “download”.
Those ways are extremely costly to design and build and come with the significant ongoing cost and management burden. Electronic poker/slots machine companies use them.
Without going into detail, its extremely unlikely that an encryption solution would be realistic for a company with the size and likely revenue of EHG.
DRM could be effective but would essentially mean regular online check ins (if not always-on) which is contrary to the purpose of true offline.
Edit to add: and of course, none of the above stops people stealing stuff and redestributing it – it just makes it harder
Lets get real here for a second… Issue here is not about “true offline” or “some sort of offline” vs online and multiplayer - bottom line is its all about the profits and profit margins. We dont have to like it. And that is ok. EHG is a business, and business needs revenue. If EHG believes offline mtx availability will harm their profits (because piracy and what not) then that is their right. Not like there is not a single pirated copy of LE already on the internet - oh, wait, there are, many in fact.
And now one unpopular opinion - there are still people calling EHG a small indie team (even in this thread) - they are not. Not anymore. Ever since Tencent. I believed that EHG are different, that they actually care about the player, not as a consumer but as a person without whom the game wouldnt be what it is and can be eventually. And then they dropped the infamous mtx post and later rebuttal. It was texbook anchoring at its finest. And it was beautiful. Beautiful in the sense of shattered glass and my illusions. Because it is all about the profit from now on… not regular profit… not maximazing profit… but ALL the profit. And offline mtx dont come into Tencents calculation machine very well. And the ammount of people still white-knighting is what worries me the most. If I get proven wrong, so be it.
But remember this - every decision, especially those that get people riled up (and it may someday be about multiplayer or online features) is motivated by profit.