Thank you for the memories

General
21

Neither your nor Travos statements are “facts”.

PoE is undoubtedly a big and successful game (relatively speaking in this niche genre of video games)

But it is not objectively better than any other game, because its very hard to objectively judge a game as a whole. You can only directly compare certain aspects of games and some of them might be objectively gaugeable.

Play numbers and player retention are not the only factor to judge if a game is good or successful.
PoE has a loooooooong history and a way bigger playerbase, because it is around for 11+years (since release + anotehr 3 1/2 years including betas and alphas)

The main reason PoE has the kind of numbers it has today and especially the large community with decent player retention are constant updates and additions and a plentyful endgame.

PoE only is this succesful in the latter half of its lifetime, before that it was actually compareble with LE’s playernumbers. Nowaday the market is a lot more saturated and there are a lot of alternatives, so its harder to grow a huge community.

In the early stages PoE had no endgame and bad player retention as well.

The player numbers and active players we see right now in LE can be very deciving, because the initial peak and numbers were enormous and the drop in players looks bad.

If PoE had this hype this early on in its lifetime it would have suffered a similar fate.
LE still has a long way to go to build a solid foundation with meaningful varied endgame to keep people entertained for longer periods of time.

Neither what you said or claimed nor what other people said here are “facts”.
You just take one of many statistics and take them out of context.
Correlation and causation getting messed up. You take some numbers that fit your narrative and claim that these are proof for your story.

I think the problem that I see here is, you make a thread about you had a good time with LE and now you move on, which is fine.
But you tried to explain why with some unreasonable claims and you didn’t gave a very good reason why you personally leave the game.

There is basically nothing to learn for the devs here.
You sounded like you wanted to give feedback why you left, so they might change something in the future.
But in all the comments after people asked about details you gave no concise answers. You just made some claims that you can’t factually back up.

3 Likes
22

He’s probably not wrong. I have 350 hours played and I haven’t hit max level on any characters. Most builds don’t need the extra 10 points from the last levels after 90. But I’ve gotten almost every subclass to 70+

The fact that you say you had to ‘force yourself’ to grind to 100 only reinforces this.

I stopped playing D4 within 2 months because it just wasn’t fun. I played D2/D3/Grim Dawn for hundreds of hours, but they were fun. And I’m still playing GD now because it’s still getting updates.

oh and most people who hit 99 in D2 were probably botting also.

1 Like
23

No, what I said was not opinion. Look at the forums and you will see there are many people have made many statements that they like LE better. That is fact. I never said that LE is better than POE, that would be opinion.

What you said was that POE is better than LE, that is opinion, not fact.

1 Like
24

Ok @Heavy, how is it that when I say many people have said they like LE better than POE because they have stated so not a fact when it’s in the forum? There have been many posts about it. I never said that LE was better than POE, that would be opinion like I said.

2 Likes
25

I actually didn’t mean your statement literally^^

I think I expressed that bad. I wanted to say that all users on this forum when talking about what game is better or worse than another game just state their feelings and opinions.
There are very few things regarding those subjects that are “facts”.

I just used you as an example because you were the last other user in the discussion :sweat_smile:

I just heavily (no pun intended) dislike people claiming things as facts (as OP did) and on top of that speaking on behalf of other parts of the community.
I don’t really know why people use this way of argumenting, because it weakens their statements more than it helps in most cases (at least for me)

5 Likes
26

PoE is comparable to last epoch as last epoch had 5 years in early access. It’s a new launch sure, but it still feels like we are in early access in some ways.

From my knowledge Poe with 5 years into the game being up was doing a lot better no? Someone who played PoE let me know about this. As this game is tech 5 years old. That’s a lot of time to build in stuff which they did not do

27

Could not have said this better myself. I got as high as L97 in D2, then switched over to D4 when the closed beta came out, then gave up on Blizzard after the great nerf patch was released and killed all of my builds. The only other game that I still play besides LE is Grim Dawn, which is still getting better almost 10 years after launch.

Here’s to hoping LE seems the same growth/success.

28

Hell no, it wasn’t.
It did not even have any meaningful endgame system at that point.

Their first iteration of the Atlas was introduced 5 years after the first playable beta version (6 1/2 years after the first alpha version).

Relatively speaking LE has waaaay more going after 5-6 years of active development.

Even the very first iteration of Monolith that LE had was way cooler than PoEvs mapping system before they had the atlas IMO.

2 Likes
29

PoE uses their own bespoke engine which makes it a lot “easier” to make the decision to adapt & enhance the engine (in terms of “where should we spend our limited resources, add new functionality to our engine so we can create new more different content or work with what functionality we have”). I’m assuming you know what those words mean in context but past comments have shown that this may not be a reasonable assumption.

Also, EHG have been adding new capabilities. But I’m not entirely sure you’d believe me (especially since they’re “owned” :roll_eyes: by Tencent).

This I kinda disagree with. I liked being able to roll/“craft” maps.

1 Like
30

  1. If you want a baby game like D3 that caters to the mass of inept players, just go play D4 and let us have a game for grown-ups.
    It absolutely doesn’t matter how many people outside the target audience like LE. We are in a niche here like vegan “meat”, but adding actual meat into the product would remove our foundation. So don’t argue on behalf of those masses.

  2. Why do you fail to understand that lvl 100 is meaningless on purpose? Nothing is locked behind it, you don’t have to grind for it. You can do everything before 100. All you get at that point is something like +1 dex - like in D3 paragon, which ironically is the thing you’re asking for. Do you want one more dex each time you fill up the bar beyond 100? That was such a stupid system.

31

I dont really care as long as they dont add an exp penalty on death, the instant they do that im leaving.

I dont mind playing for an extra 200 hours or whatever to hit 100 in a season, but if I play for 250 hours and am still 95 because I died a couple of times while pushing hard content, then ill just know the game isnt on a trajectory for what they initially advertised the game as.

There is a big difference between poe and LE 100. PoE 100 does not honestly take that much time, what stops 99.9% of players from reaching level 100, is they play in a way that causes the exp penalty on death to eventually mean they never get exp if you earn 0.5% an hour at level 99, it takes 200 hours to hit 100. However if you lose 10% exp on death then you essentially lose 20 hours of progress per death, and if you are unable to go more then 21 hours of playtime without dying, you basically never make progress.

When I hit 97 in poe, I basically know my character is done because Its not a matter of “well if I invest more time, ill hit level 100” i just dont play at a level where thats true.

32

I know that people love snipping a “gotcha” sentence and then writing a bunch of text as to why everything else should be ignored, but we’ve gone 30 posts without addressing the OP’s actual complaint. Yes, he mentions about reaching the Level 100 milestone, but his more substantial issue was that getting to endgame (regardless of Level) is tedious and that there’s a lack of endgame content to keep a person playing.

Once I get those Empowered Blessings, I do reach a bit of a stagnant point, where I’m not strong enough to beat T4 dungeons, but have a hard time figuring out what I should tackle to get the gear needed to be that strong. Doing monoliths from, say Level 40 - 100 will feel like a slog for a lot of players. Yes, there are dungeons to break up the monotony, but all of them have chokepoints where the bosses / particular mobs have really high damage, and people can only take so many deaths before they feel like they’re not progressing anymore.

We don’t know anything about the Nemesis system introduced in 1.1, and we also don’t know what the pinnacle bosses are designed for (are they designed for people who can easily clear T4 dungeons? Do they provide the carrot so that players want to reach Level 90+) Lack of endgame content is a legitimate issue, and I hope with the amount of time the devs are baking into the 1.1 patch that it demonstrates at the very least that they’re listening to players’ concerns.

33

Well in his argumentation lvl 100 and endgame are pretty intertwined, as if the endgame happened after lvl 100.

So while reaching lvl 100 can feel tedious, that is not relevant for reaching endgame is not.

Maybe we should define the point where the endgame begins and I would say that’s after unlocking empowered monoliths. If getting there feels tedious, that’s on me for having skipped most of the campaign and having grinded through echoes for a long time already.

Lack of endgame beyond that line? Yes, we know, EHG knows and is extending it, but that’s your point, not OP’s.

Regarding your stagnant point, yes, there’s a pretty big gap between t3 and t4 dungeons, but unless you need dungeon-exclusive drops, you’re “supposed” to farm monoliths for better blessings as a framework. During that you’ll get exp and gear upgrades.

34

That has been acknowledged before many times. It’s something that only time will fix, as they introduce more endgame stuff.

I usually start doing monos at level 25ish, go back to finish the campaign at 50-55ish, then keep going until I’m at empowered monos. I usually switch to a new char around level 80-90, depending on the build. Progression up to level 80 feels fine.

Not everyone cares about getting to level 100. Not everyone cares about reaching 300+ corruption. Not everyone cares about T4 bosses. In fact, the majority of players don’t care about that, considering that most don’t even finish the campaign.
This will apply to the pinnacle boss as well. Not everyone will care about it.

The pinnacle bosses are designed to be the hardest static difficulty content in the game, replacing Julra.

No. As Mike said, they don’t expect most players to reach level 100. Not because it’s hard (because it isn’t hard, given that there are no XP penalties), just because it takes a longer time than most players care to invest.

Post level 100 content is covered by factions. They give you something to farm/keep grinding once you reach level 100 with a character. Or to keep advancing as you’re making new alts.

The only thing in the current system I feel like is a slog is going through normal monoliths for the 100th time to unlock empowered. They should be unlocked account wide.

35

Perfect. Grabbing another support pack.

6 Likes
36

The OP is making those exact points in the first two posts.

It’s quite clear that the OP wants marked progression at various stages to make going past Empowered Monoliths (which people can do around Level 70 or so) worth it, and even then, Empowered Monos are exactly the same as the regular monos people do around Level 50 or so, just with some more spicy rewards and scaling corruption being something useful.

Yes, there are high-level Unique chase items that are designed around endgame (Red Ring, Omnis for general players, Frostbite Shackles for Ward-based players), and I’m sure the pinnacle boss will drop something shiny for players to chase as well (honestly, I find the other 2 T4 dungeon bosses to be much harder than Julra; at least her attack patterns are consistent compared to random boulder drop locations and multiple screen-wide heavy damage attacks that have you guessing which immunity you’re supposed to be holding), but if the only mark of progress is to do the same thing people have already done for the past 30 levels, that will turn players off.

Note also, I said “a lot of players” without pretending to provide a percentage. Of course not everyone has this gripe, but it is still a legitimate gripe.

37

The thing is, what the OP said makes it seem like taking too long to get to level 100 has anything to do with endgame (namely the lack of it) when it clearly doesn’t and is simply a design choice and part of the game’s identity.

If it really was intended simply to extend gameplay due to a lack of endgame content then we could expect that as more endgame gets added, the xp required for level 100 would go down, since it would no longer be required. But I very seriously doubt the time required for level 100 will change much anytime soon, even when new endgame stuff is added.

So lack of endgame, yes. That’s an issue but it’s an issue that is common to all new releases. LE doesn’t have less endgame content than D4 did on launch. Or PoE. It will come in time.

But a long time to level 100, no. That’s not a game issue, it’s a game design/identity. It likely will never change, much like PoE’s didn’t either. The only thing that changed in PoE regarding this is that with the power creep it’s harder to die so more players can get there.

38

Min/Maxers mad that endgame starts around level 75 instead of level 100? This is to your benefit lmao. Instead of grinding to max level, you get to start min/maxing earlier in the game … But that’s a bad thing? As soon as you can do empowered monos you are entering endgame phase.

I don’t get it …

5 Likes
39

My “endgame” definition starts once I run normal monos.

Other people might consider “endgame starts at 300 corruption”.

I tend to agree. Once you played the “tutorial monolith” and were thrown into the empowered world, you know what to expect.

With many chars, I would probably still run a ton of normal monos first to farm some exp and gear to have the means to comfortably switch to empowered.

1 Like
40

Yeah, empowered monos being unlocked still gives you the option to run normal ones (it’s actually annoying to have to select empowered everytime you kill a boss, but that’s another issue), so we could still use normal monos to level up when we want. We just don’t need to run all the normal ones when we can usually already run empowered at 60-70ish.

1 Like