I’ve been trying to keep up with this thread since it’s started but the tabloids have gotten ahold of it and I grab my tinfoil hat every time a new update comes in. It’s pretty wild the speculation being thrown around here about this whole topic. I’ve honestly lost track of the plot twists so I just read it, shrug and go back to anticipating Feb.
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Exactly. The devs are going to put faction in, they’re going to try to balance loot the way they think feels good. There really isn’t any point in trying to discuss or anticipate it before then.
Like I said, I’ll just wait for 1.0 and see how it pans out. Then I might have suggestions and opinions.
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Just to further my point:
EHG has a great feedback with the community. So far, from what I’ve seen, they listen to the players, they engage with them and they take their suggestions seriously. If they don’t want to do something, they explain why and they try to find compromises.
Case in point, the whole thing about shards: they feel like they want you to pick stuff up, we feel it’s a waste of time, so they came up with a compromise which is to have less shard drops but in greater quantity. Plus saying they will find a way to convert shards so we have something to sink them in.
And other things players have requested that they’ve said they won’t change for now, they always say they might eventually change their mind and do something about it.
Compare that with PoE: GGG has terrible feedback with their community. Just look at Harvest. They implemented it, the top 1% players and youtubers complained that it made the game too easy (meaning other players could get decent gear without grinding/exploiting trade) so they removed it. Players asked for it back and they said no, they didn’t want any deterministic crafting in the game (why did they make that league, then? 
). After another league they finally caved to the constant requests/demands (and playerbase drop) so they placed Harvest in core but they nerfed the crap out of it. And later they were then forced to place a compromise in place. GGG doesn’t engage with their community in a positive way.
Basically, you can never please all players. Some want completely random loot, others want deterministic loot (like with D3 where most drops are for your class, which is something I personally hate). Some want the drops easier, others harder.
In the end, though, even though EHG have their view on how things should work (it’s their game, after all) they actively communicate with the community and, from what I’ve seen so far, they’ve mostly done a great work of making this a good game for the players, including many compromises.
So I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt before getting our flaming torches and pitchforks out for something that isn’t yet in the game.
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Friends, I do not pretend to be the truth in the first instance, but I am sure that if a cracked vase is turned to the viewer with the non-broken side, the vase will not cease to be cracked.
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Compare 2 definitions of the simple word “game”. If you don’t see the difference, then most likely the topikstarter problem will never be solved. (in my humble opinion).
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Game (“game activity”, game culture of a person as a person and a subject of activity, life path, festive and game culture of society, etc.) - to varying degrees, a person is aware of as a subject of activity, amateur activity and creativity (development in general) or even an instinctive way of obtaining and developing skills by people and animals at the moment of the absence of direct threats to life and the development of abilities. It is characterized by a tendency to repetition, consolidation-improvement and development of vital reflexes, forms of activity leading to the development of an actor of game actions and activities (more broadly, life activity), including both natural forms of game behavior, initiative and independent manifestations of game activity, and specially organized games in ethnopedagogy and psychological and pedagogical practices, military affairs and management, psychotherapy (game therapy practices, psychotechnical games, etc.) and the design of the future — subject-oriented development practices (as an integration of the developments of various psychohistorical practices) of a person and society.
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A game is a structured form of play, usually undertaken for entertainment or fun, and sometimes used as an educational tool. Many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports or games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong, solitaire, or some video games).
Games are sometimes played purely for enjoyment, sometimes for achievement or reward as well. They can be played alone, in teams, or online; by amateurs or by professionals. The players may have an audience of non-players, such as when people are entertained by watching a chess championship. On the other hand, players in a game may constitute their own audience as they take their turn to play. Often, part of the entertainment for children playing a game is deciding who is part of their audience and who is a player. A toy and a game are not the same. Toys generally allow for unrestricted play whereas games present rules for the player to follow.
Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role.
What cracked vase? Right now the best loot is hard by design. Trade will make getting good gear easier. And SSF will probably remain similar in difficulty, which is how SSF works. Players don’t want to play SSF so they can get a 4LP per week. If you look at SSF in other games (that aren’t D3), rarely will players have BiS gear. They play SSF because they enjoy the challenge.
You might argue that maybe it’s too hard right now for SSF, but playing semi-casually in a month you can get enough gear for endgame. Maybe you won’t do 2k+ corruption, but you can easily do 500+, especially if you’re an experienced player and can easily craft good stuff.
It might require some balance (which is likely to come after the systems are actually implemented), but SSF players are looking for a challenge, not the casual players experience.
FromSoftware would disagree with you.
I observe some contradiction in your statement
This once again confirms that either the goals are false, or the result.
I’m just wondering, how do you understand the topikstarter problem? What doesn’t suit him?
What contradiction? With SSF you can easily do 500+, you just can’t easily do 2k+, which you probably will with trade.
So you won’t miss out on endgame content, you just won’t be as effective.
If you want 2-3 pieces with 4LP you use trade, if you want SSF you want the challenge that you might not even get a 2LP piece.
The OP problem is about loot as it is now. Min-maxers that want the best possible loot will use trade. SSF players will get something close to the experience we now have, probably with some adjustments. That’s what you see in PoE, for example.
As I mentioned way earlier in the thread: if you play 10h a day and don’t get a 4LP within a season/cycle, then that’s a problem that needs addressing. Will the factions address that? I don’t know, I have to wait and see. But the point is that with SSF it should be rare to have 2-3 4LP good rolled uniques. Just like in PoE, if you play SSF, you will rarely have a good double corrupt unique.
I don’t think you heard OP
He has no goal to run 2k corruption
He doesn’t have a min max goal of his character.
Your thoughts on SSF, hours in the game, the presence or absence of trade, the legal amount of unique items in the amount of time is just an attempt not to look at the essence of the problem.
I’ll try to rephrase
The negative result that has arisen due to the substitution of concepts cannot be corrected by substitution of concepts…
Something like that.
The OP was complaining that it might take a few weeks to get a unique with 2-3LP and then you roll it and it might not get the affixes you want. That’s because we’re playing SSF right now.
As I said, if the difficulty in getting good items in SFF is too high, then that needs to be adressed. As I also said, things will change once 1.0 comes and you get both factions. So it’s better to wait until it comes rather than just rant and rave about something that isn’t yet here.
Wait for 1.0, check what the drop rates are for the first cycle and then complaint. Or not. It might be that SSF difficulty will turn out fine. Or that it won’t but it will be addressed quickly by the devs.
The point is that the state of loot as it is right now is not what it will be at 1.0. I highly doubt that SSF loot will be the exact same thing we have now.
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So I came across the fact that the role play game is no different from the usual slot machines in the casino. And no one sees it )
OP considers the game as an environment for the implementation of his project, expects that his actions / changes in conditions within the game will affect something. Wants to get experience related to his decisions. He sets the bar at half of the stated possibilities and as a result receives only one answer - nothing depends on the player’s actions, everything depends only on luck and the number of attempts, and the number of attempts should be very high.
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I’m sorry, have you ever played an ARPG before, other than D3/D4? I’ve played D2 for many many years and there were times when I couldn’t find a single shako in a season. There were times where I’ve crafted literally thousands of amulets and didn’t get what I wanted. And other times I would get a shako in the first couple weeks and got the amulet I wanted in a few dozen tries. Same thing for PoE with drops and corruptions. Same thing with Torchlight, etc.
RNG based loot means exactly that: there’s a chance that you will never get the drop you want. Just like there’s a chance that all the drops you want will drop all in a row. In a game with thousands of people, most players will fall in the middle, but some will fall on either end of the spectrum.
The fact that RNG based loot is like a slot machine is exactly what has drawn so many people to the ARPG genre. Because you have a bunch of useless loot but you get a dopamine rush when you get that special drop.
You might argue balance, which was the point the OP was making, and that’s fair. We’ll see how that balance falls once 1.0 arrives.
But complaining that RNG loot is like a slot machine isn’t really a valid argument. Not unless you want LE to be like D3.
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If a person has been driving the same route for many years, this does not make him a good driver.
Your many years of experience playing D2 is of course very valuable. But the concept of “play” goes beyond D2 “a little bit” sewing.
LE, unlike most other ARPGs, is actually very deterministic. It’s crafting is deterministic, the LP imprinting is pretty deterministic, even the unique farming system is fairly deterministic. Of course, you still have to have RNG. Otherwise you might as well just have a shop and buy it from there.
Again, as I said, the RNG might need tuning. Let’s wait for 1.0 and see how it turns out. If it’s still hell to get a decent 2LP unique, then we should address that issue. If it’s not, then problem solved. However, it won’t be solved before 1.0, so what’s the point of waving pitchforks until then?
I haven’t just played D2. That’s just the one I’ve played for the most years. I’ve played most major (western) ARPGs since then. And in all of them, excluding D3 and D4, getting loot was always like a slot machine. I’ve even played some eastern ones where there was a literal slot machine in the game.
There’s nothing wrong with RNG based loot. The only thing that needs to be addressed is the balance of the RNG. And the final word in that, ultimately, will fall on the devs. If they want SSF to retain it’s current difficulty they are entitled to do so, knowing that some players might not like it and leave. If they want to make loot easier, then they are entitled to do so knowing that some players might not like it and leave.
The only real issue here is balance, which we won’t know how it stands until 1.0.
Yes, let’s wait for tuning. After all, the number of dice rolls radically changes the situation “when nothing depends on the player in 10/10 cases” to “when nothing depends on the player in 5/5 cases”
I honestly don’t understand what your gripe is. You have games with easy loot like D3. You have games with even harder loot like PoE (pre-harvest especially) and even Grim Dawn.
But even in D3, which is the easiest ARPG of all time, you had a bunch of RNG. You might enchant a piece of gear dozens of times and not get that affix you want, you might not get the affixes you want in a drop/craft.
You will never get a fully deterministic loot system in an ARPG because that’s not what the players want. Players want randomness where they try to craft a truly awesome piece and it bricks. Because sometimes it won’t and you’ll have an awesome piece of gear that feels even better because it wasn’t easy. Or because you even got it in the first few tries.
As I said, it’s all about balance between really easy like D3 (and, imo, not fulfilling at all, loot was a joke there) and really hard like PoE pre-harvest (imo, not fulfilling either). Right now LE is closer to PoE/GD than D3, but it’s not nearly as bad. At least you have some control on what might show up in the LPs. It might not be what you want, but you have a fairly decent chance to get it, as opposed to corrupting uniques in PoE (not to mention double corrupt)
It’s not perfect and it’s still pretty hard, but we’ll see how it will turn out.
Game (“game activity”, game culture of a person as a person and a subject of activity, life path, festive and game culture of society, etc.) - to varying degrees, a person is aware of as a subject of activity, amateur activity and creativity
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A game is a structured form of play, usually undertaken for entertainment or fun. Games are sometimes played purely for enjoyment, sometimes for achievement or reward as well.
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Flawless victory!
Slot machines win!