Sunforged set weapon math

Sentinel
1

Playing a hybrid shield-throw minion build and loving it. Had the set drop and thought that it could actually be useful for once!

I read that all the stacking bonuses do not apply to minions, which is sad. Went to test it, and indeed, absolutely no crossover.

Then I thought, maybe the stacking of the melee fire damage does something worthwile for me, and raises the damage of skills like Forge Strike hugely. I was so wrong.
It appears that the melee damage is calculated as an additive flat damage, not calculated as normal added melee damage. A simple weapon with the same flat damage (innate weapon damage + added melee physical from weapon) that has an additional modifier of ~22 X type of damage, does similar damage, than a fully stacked 15 forge weapons set weapon for melee skills, which should net close to 375 melee damage. Yet the damage is calculated strange and unintuitive.

I tried all different kinds of changes, from snapshotting to weapon swapping, but the added melee damage is not calculating like normal added melee damage.
The increased fire damage per forge weapon on the chest however, works perfectly and the scaling is easily visible on non-melee skills like Shield Throw and the damage increase is noteworthy.

Can anyone tell me how the calculation for the added melee fire damage of the set weapon works? As it stands now, it is completely useless.

Feel bad having to not be able to use it as it does nothing.

2

Those two things are equivalent & treated the same way by the damage calculation.

So youā€™re saying that the +x melee fire damage per forged weapon affix is being treated as +x melee fire damage if/while you have a forged weapon rather than per forged weapon?

If thatā€™s the case then you should definitely report that using the in-game bug reporting tool.

3

Thanks for the reply!

What I meant with the flat damage instead of added as normal damage is the internal calculation of additional values x multiplicative or increased values. It is a completely flat increase to the total damage, without any calculation of ā€˜xā€™ damage.

I was able to log in so hereā€™s the math with just the weapons and the chest:

|without stacks||damage|melee%|increased fire base|crit|crit mult||||tooltip vengeance|

|set|W1|158|30.00%|60%|6%|200%|336.224|2.974207671||1000|
|spear|W2|210|24.00%|60%|12%|365%|555.6432|2.955133798||1642|

|with 12 stacks||damage|melee%|increased fire base|crit|crit mult|||||
|set|W1|422|30.00%|348%|6%|200%|1786.5792|||5280|
|spear|W2|210|24.00%|348%|12%|365%|1123.3656|||3320|

Here you can see that with the two different weapons without stacks, the set mace is weaker - 1000 versus 1642 for the spear (because of base damage of 158 vs 210 compared with crit-critmulti difference)

If applying the same calculations, but with base fire damage increase and the increased fire damage per forged weapon the tooltip should read resp. 5280 - 3320. A large increase with the buffs going.
When testing the tooltip damage is resp. 1582 - 2003.

The weird thing is, I have a base fire damage increase of 60%. With 12 stacks, each giving 24% I end up with: 290%. Which means that the increase is 230% in the stats menu i.e. not the same as 24%*12.

The net increase of the tooltip after forged weapons is just incromprehensible. As I only used the weapon and the armor, their are only several hidden multipliers. I simplified the calculation to forgo multipliers such as skill multipliers and ā€˜moreā€™ multipliers, as these remain equal throughout the test phase. The difference between both weapon calculations I did and the tooltip was 2.955 (this was similar in the calculation with forge strike, which has the same problem as a melee skill), so I used that to multiply the calculated changes of the accumulated stacks of the set pieces. The only difference between the two weapons is the speed of 0.73 and 0.75, not meaningful for this explanation.

Any ideas? Just the increased fire damage alone shouldā€™ve 2Xā€™d the tooltip damage of both skills. So I reckon all are wrong. Moreover, I found that there is no text in blue underneath these values on the set items. Maybe it has something to do with that (normally it says something like ā€œIncreased fire damage doneā€ or the likes).

I have made a bugreport, because something has to be off.

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4

Unfortunately your data isnā€™t displayed in any easily readable way either on my phone or desktop. Given what I know of how EHG do things, the most likely issue is that the flat damage buff is if you have any Forged Weapons rather than being per Forged Weapon. The only place flat damage goes in the damage calc is at the ā€œbeginningā€, theyā€™d have had to deliberately add it ā€œat the endā€ (ie, after all % modifiers were applied).

Absolutely!

5

I just copy pasted simple maths. The most important thing is the first tooltip damage, the supposed tooltip damage, and then the actual tooltip damage, indicating a definite flaw in how it is calculated.

Every extra forge weapon does increase tooltip damage, thus it is somehow calculated but not according to rules set by EHG, or presumably, as supposed to be calculated as similar affixes.

If it would work as you stated, flat damage at the beginning, the tooltip variance should be great, same goes for the incorrect summation of the increased fire damage - both are incomprehensible from a logical standpoint. Which would result in the difference I showed on the tooltip.

6

Yeah, itā€™s how itā€™s presented in the forum without using the table formatting option (there is one somewhere) makes it almost impossible to read.

7

Iā€™ll double check this on my Forge Guard character, but it seems to be working correctly for me on target dummies. Using the Sunforged Hammer provides a substantial increase in damage with a full set of forged weapons. Iā€™m pretty sure the flat damage it provides is being incorporated correctly.

If the issue is that the damage shown in the tooltip isnā€™t accurate, then I vaguely remember that that may be the case. Iā€™ve seen the tooltip damage drop when equipping the mace, despite my damage on the target dummies increasing by 2x, 3x, or something like that.

8

The actual damage reflects the tooltip damage of my attack. Thus it can not be that it is working correctly. I;m waiting to see if there will be a response to my report.

Average damage with 0 forged weapons: 1400
Average damage with 12 forged weapons: 1600

And that is with both the increased fire damage as well as fire melee damage.
I reached 72, meaning I could test the helm, and that is working properly.

The melee damage should contribute immensely to increased damage, but it does not.

1 Like
9

EHG rarely seem to respond to reports like this, so I wouldnā€™t keep your hopes up on that front. Iā€™m sure they will have read the report and raised an issue internally to see if they can reproduce it.

As for myself, I just did some testing on the target dummies with my Forge Strike and the Sunforged Hammer. Note that these tests were purely with the hammer, not with any other set items or bonuses:

  • with 0 Forged Weapons, hit for about 11K damage with Forge Strike
  • with 12 Forged Weapons, hit for about 21K

Iā€™m assuming this is the comparison youā€™re interested in. Iā€™m seeing a similar increase for Multistrike hits too. The above numbers suggest to me that the weapon is working at least approximately as advertised.

I can confirm that the tooltip damage for Forge Strike does not reflect the extra damage provided by the ā€œflat fire damage per forged weaponā€ affix. It would be nice if it did.

Are you testing the hammer itself, or another weapon that has the hammerā€™s set affix on it? How are you testing the actual damage output of the weapon? Iā€™m just wondering why Iā€™m seeing very different results to you.