Hello, I want to make some suggestions about the end game. U have very good and interesting designs in place for the end game, monoliths and future dungeons are very good concepts for playing and acquiring gear, but there is one concept lacking. And that is putting all ur gear and ur character to the ultimate test. Unfortunately, increasing difficulty in monoliths and dungeons can not serve this purpose, because it is basically the same thing people did before, people will get used to it, get bored and will not see it as a challenge. The best way is to introduce end game VERY powerful bosses, obviously with different difficulties, but the most powerful ones should be doable only by very powerful characters with almost perfect gear. That will serve as a great motivation for players to play and to acquire better gear. In my gaming experience, this kind of challenge is the best for motivating players. Because it is truly feels like a challenge, and players will want to overcome it. Be careful with the powercreep tho, u do not want this challenge to become too easy.
I donât want to badmouth your idea, because i also feel that this game needs higher difficulty in endgame (letâs not talk about the broken c9 monster gamble game in arena atm)âŚ
But this way of making the game more difficult has extreme consequences for an arpg game and its community. As soon as you add extremely difficult content that can only be achieved by some builds, the more meta builds are created. And in an online arpg this is fatal imo for both build diversity and economy aspect.
PoE is the best example because the majority of the playbase is aiming for meta builds both leveling and endgame, and so many other interesting ways of playing are completely neglected. Just look at PoE Ninja (it has been worse back then when 50% of the playersbase was playing necro).
What i like about the current situation of LE is, that you can pretty much complete the game with any build you wanna play and create. And by completing the game i mean, finishing the story, all normal timeline bosses, all empowered timeline bosses. Arena and corruption pushing is all about advantages and disadvantages of certain mechanics in builds/classes which is fine because the scaling there is endless.
Letâs wait what we get with all the remaining endgame content EHG has planned. I think we will get far more interesting ways in late game to customize our characters with challenging content.
I think extremely difficult content could be done in LE. I would imagine it would just take time and some analytics into the builds people are playing. There has to be a way to create some sort of min/max threshold for difficulty of content outside of making content based on 2 assumptions. I think currently those 2 assumptions are a player has basic attack and can move at a base speed. I am not sure if these are the exact ones EHG uses in their design, but I think Iâve heard something along these lines. And while using those is good in ensuring content can be completed and done by all. Itâd be nice to see it expanded on in some way.
Youâre going to have a meta created regardless, there is going to be some sort of scaling (corruption/arena) that creates a barrier between classes/builds. I think itâs best to mitigate or remove the advantages that meta players get, but still important to have aspirational or skill-based content that canât be done by just anyone and everyone. Just donât gate gear/progression/etc. behind these systems, thatâs when problems arise. I think itâs best to put cosmetics, titles, and/or a ladder in for this content to still give people a reason to push it. To alleviate the meta problem, implementing this in multiple different game systems would promote a variety of builds and playstyles as one build likely wonât be good at all of them (hopefully).
In the end, the game is still very far from complete. Most of us are here for the potential that it has. I just hope they get a bit more brazen with some of the other end game systems they implement. Iâll add to this post in saying Iâd love to see puzzle, timed, and bossing focused end game systems with some sort of competitive element (ex: ladder w/ season rewards).
You are right, i just hate that term meta so much i guessđ. Its just sometimes that i wish arpgs would act like in Grim Dawn where you could ask a player what he/she plays or what his/her favorite build is and you get an answer you didnt expect or never heard about this build before for additional inspiration.
In PoE it is like this: âwell lets look up poe ninja or just copy paste a build from one of the streamers/content creatorsâ
In LE there was a phase where EVERYONE played bowmage or EQ Druid just because they are strong and efficient to farm. But what for? You can achieve everything with your own build creation, because LE has a good foundation.
Yeah i was always a fan of those titles/achievements. They are a good motivation factor to try different things. I remember the good old rocket league days where chasing titles was the reason you got better. Reaching that ESL title was so damn satisfying after all the hard work and hours you put in.
Agree. It is really time for an additional endgame mode. Arena is in the worst spot atm. And mono is the only go to content right now.
Grim Dawn is both significantly smaller than PoE and, for most purposes, offline. If GD was always online like PoE is & the size of PoE, itâd likely have a meta as well.
Then youâre not asking enough people. Iâve never done a bowmage & I briefly tried a non-Druid EQ build to see what it was like. If you ask people that follow a meta what they play, youâll get the impression that everyone plays the meta.
Yeah i can agree with that. The offline aspect is probably the reason. Having no database like poeninja makes it hard for players to follow a efficient strategy. Therefore they switch to builds they feel comfortable to play. Thats whats sad to me that people just copy paste certain builds without having a clue how mechanics work. And they probably dont even like the playstyleâŚbutâŚthey have advantages in early economy.
Im really glad atm how the ladder in LE looks like about what you can see. Only showing the used skills but not the whole gear/passive or skilltree makes it hard for the players to chase meta.
I just exaggerated a bit 
Iâm not âYouâ, then. Many of my builds fail. By fail, I mean either canât finish the campaign, or canât complete all timelines.
But these failed builds were fun! I have no regret, I had fun playing them. And thatâs what I love in LE: even at low levels, even with non-performing builds, I can have fun without following blindly a guide that works I donât know how!
I agree with everything that is written in this thread.
Cosmetics and titles is something that would give me the incentive to push.
I see that this can lead to meta builds. But I also think that nothing will ever prevent this.
Didnât play either in their heyday, just looked too âbrokenâ.
â Never tried to build anything with 100,000+ Ward (used to exist) or anything with 1,000,000+ DPS (still exists) for that reason. 
Same⌠Iâll watch the video or check out the build planner but I always think of how annoyed I would be once it inevitably gets nerfed so I never play these outliersâŚ
as POE.
:we need VERY powerful bosses.
GGG: ok, T17
:we need VERY powerful bosses.
GGG: ok, T18
:we need VERY powerful bosses.
GGG: ok, T19
:we need VERY powerful bosses.
GGG: ok, T20
âŚ
new player: what the âŚ
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