With all the nerfs to wards, plus 80% penalty healing-> ward conversion to Divine Barrier, PLUS all the reduction in flat healing (from 100 + 140 → 50 + 80), is there any reasons to keep the -65% healing for indirect HH from Cleric’s Hammer node? Because right now there is no freaking way that i can play Melee (vengence/rive) with auto proc HH any more. If you concern about double HH (by using Serapth Blade to proc Cleric’s Hammer)- then just make it not happen. Using a skill that can “proc itself” sounds very weird in the 1st place. Triple penalties to other melee HH are way too much to deal with, when caster Smite/HH is somehow still survive with only double penalties.
You didn’t really explain why you cannot play Melee with auto proc HH.
isn’t that obvious? My 1st build focus all idols on + HP and using proc HH only as heal, not ward generation, and both the “healing part” and “damage part” are super low: i can only get heal about 300-400HP per auto HH (due to the flat heal got nerf so much to maximum 130), and HH deals 1/2 pre-berf damage because Bane of evil node changed. And if i try to use HH as ward generator, you got 3 super high penalties as i said, and barely made it to 3k-4k ward at all. Without the -65% penalties like Cleric’s Hammer, caster Smite + HH is still survive with easily 10k wards (of course thats still very low compare to 100k wards before nerf, but i think 10k is a reasonable change and not too OP). Both the heal part and the damage part of HH are ridiculous low right now, but the only suggest i would like to change is the Cleric’s Hammer penalty. Everything else is perfectly fine and still playable. If you have some good builds with Melee + HH, please share, i would like to try still.
What level of corruption are you playing at?
That sounds like a lot. What amount do you think you should get?
The point of a nerf is to change the pre-nerf state into a nerfed state, so everything seems to be working as intended.
So you can get to 3k-4k Ward. As melee. In other words, you can play Melee with auto proc HH just fine.
you’re making a lot of misunderstanding in my post. I said that the nerf damage is ok, i dont mind that at all, and you are trying to discuss about that as if i pray for revert nerf. And about the ward generation build- you have to sacrifice all the best affix items to T6-T7 for healing effectiveness, and saving all the idols slot for healing eff as well to get that 3k-4k wards. So you got barely 1k6-1k8HP with no HP idols. 300-400HP healing is BIG for what? for main campaign? Because i play in ONLY 200 corruption and ITS NOT ENOUGH. and You sound like “as a melee” like melee is an advantage or something?? When caster can safely spam Smite from 1 screen far away from enemies and still get no penalty like -65% ward gain and get 10k wards- versus a melee that ALWAYS HAVE TO STAND NEXT to enemies to deal damage and proc the HH? How is that fair? Like at all? HH got nerf all the damage, all 80% generation, and almost 50% flat healing- again- IMO that’s totally FINE. Just make melee and caster be the same treatment. Even better: melee SHOULD GET MORE HEAL than a safe-play caster. But yeah, i dont ask for that in my initial post, right?
I don’t think I’m making any misunderstanding.
You’re the one who first mentioned the damage nerf - in your second reply. I only said the damage change is working as intended. If you’re okay with it, then there’s no reason to mention it.
The Ward build also has to “sacrifice all the best affix items” to get the Ward, so that’s no different from the melee build.
And you didn’t answer the question - what amount of healing from HH a melee should have, if 400 HP is not enough?
To be clear, I’m not arguing against your suggestion.
I just said you didn’t really properly explain why this change should happen. Saying “because caster can cast from range and I have to stand next to bosses” isn’t really proper reasoning 
(on a side note, I play a caster Paladin this league, and I stand in melee range all the time 
)
what amount of healing from HH based on what amount of damage you get. As i said i cant even fight in 200 corrupt- thats mean i get more damage than the healing HH has right now, and thats ridiculous. A full heal skill but only flat 130 HP each time is low enough, and for “melee-only” it get -65% penalty from Cleric’s Hammer/ to basically 50 flat heal just like unspecialized HH. And now I understand part of your arguement here: you DONT play melee HH, so you dont know how exactly what state that concept is right now. You can play caster Paladin at melee-range all you want, but that’s only because they didnt get those nasty -65% penalty. You play in melee range but you spam Smite from very far away and from start of the battle, so basically when enemies came to you- you already got a bunch of wards already. Melee didnt get that. Fight against a group of range/throw enemies and you have to run close to them to start deal damage and get wards- you could easily die before touch them. You dont know that, cuz you dont play melee in high Corruption. If somehow Dev decide to make caster HH nerf another -65% penalty for HH like melee had for a long time, please let me know if your beloved caster is still fine :))
No, that’s not ridiculous. You don’t keep raising your healing up until it matches the incoming damage.
- Instead, you’re supposed to avoid taking damage and reduce the damage you take.
- Healing Hands is not the only option for sustaining your HP.
- Smite eats up to 15% of your current HP per cast with the Sacrifice node.
- Paladin gets a damage bonus from full HP, so I want to get healed.
- Smite heals allies close to the target.
You also don’t know how Smite works, so perhaps you also shouldn’t talk about it.
So far the only argument you’ve said is that 200 corruption is a problem for you. It sounds like the problem is in your build, and not in this Healing Hands passive in question.
Can you show us your build?
You can search for all kinds of melee Healing Hand builds in other sites (youtube, maxroll, LEtools…) and mine isn’t much different. The problem is not the exact build- but “the concept of melee and HH”. You always ask for prove, evidence, build etc… but then you have your own Paladin, why dont you try to spec your own to melee HH and see for yourself what melee’s problems vs caster one? Within 1-2 weeks since v1.1 drop, i can search for a lot of videos with 500-600 to even 1000 corruption builds in Youtube with Shaman, Sorc, Necro, Warlock… but where is a melee HH Pal (which is OP before 1.1) at more than 500 corrupt? If you want to feedback to some thread, please share your OWN experience about that, not some kind of “i-only-want-to-give-questions” to someone else’s thread. I have both a caster Pal and a melee Pal lv 100, and i know how Smite works. Let me get it straight here: Pal gets a damage bonus from full heal, BOTH melee and caster are the same. Smite eat your HP but it also heals, but other melee skills dont. So what exactly your arguement here: what kind of caster Smite got disadvantage against melee that allow HH to get a full 100% healing and melee only deserve 35%???
For a long time before my thread people know that melee HH Pal is much weaker than caster HH Pal (both Divine bolt and Smite version). You can easily search for that kind of thread in this forum or other sites. But because HH was too OP, they ignore that part, since Pal will always be OP anyway. But now HH got nerf to a more reasonable state- where caster HH is only - decent- build, melee HH got vanish to non-existence. If you want some kind of evidence, try both builds and give a feedback, If somehow you can make melee HH better than mine, which at least can do 300-400 corrupt without dying way too often, i’ll be very appreciate and change my build.
There’s nothing wrong with this. Game is balanced for 300c. Devs have repeatedly said that builds that do more than 1k are a mistake on their part. So builds that still do 1k+ will get nerfed in 1.2. 500c is actually a pretty good place for where the devs want balance to be.
Yes, i know about the 300c balanced. But 1st: i cant do 200c comfortably with few 2-3 LP legends and there is absolute NO REASONE to keep the -65% penalty for melee ONLY, when melee HH got no advantage against caster. And in my book, even without the -65% penalty, melee HH is just a decent char, no where near 1000c for people to concern about OPness. If somehow it has that kind of power, please also nerf the caster node to exact -65% healing as melee does right now. And you can close my thread.
I’m sure the devs are aware of your feedback (and other players’ as well). It will likely change in 1.2.
I have the feeling that for this cycle it was more important to simply curb the huge overperformance that HH had in 1.1. They might have overcorrected in some cases. I don’t play melee, so I can’t say one way or another.
Ultimately, this is common situation in most games. You nerf something that was OP and you inadvertently also nerf the builds that were using it without being abusive of it. This is especially more the case when you have to make huge adjustments to balance like EHG has been forced to do due to the poor balance in 1.0.
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ok i understand, thanks for your feedback as well. Right now i’ll start another char to play in 1.1 and wait for some new changes before get back to melee Pal
Because you are the one who asks for a change, so you also are the one who needs to provide the evidence. Not me.
For example here:
That’s your opinion. If you want to prove it to others - and change something about it - you’re missing both the proof and the reasoning.
Man, please, your comments are exactly what kind of making other people dont want to give any feedbacks at a community forum. You slap in a video of build with what?? 2LP 2handed weapon with “perfect affixes”, some kind of T7 dual bonus HP, some T7 +strength- and even that look at the video i saw HH gives very small component to the build (yes due to it is VERY BAD at state of melee HH right now). A Paladin that NEED ABYSSAL ECHO and VOID CLEAVE to play around. Ridiculous. And you know what? that GOD-LIKE ITEMS build does merely 600c. Here, let me give you a much better link: an-easy-to-find items build that do 770 corrupt and pinacle bosses:
Another link to other people also play both melee vs caster HH in this forum and give feedback a few months ago, but no one care- because HH was too OP anyway: This game hates melee* - #4 by Llama8
And one more thing: i dont need to prove or provide anything to YOU sir. Before you came up with an answer to my question also: " what exactly have caster got disadvantages vs melee, that allow casters have a special treatment of 100% healing vs melees have only 35% from HH", dont give another feedback to my thread please. And for the record, if caster also got the -65% penalty for Hand of Aurelus node, i’ll be completely fine and never ask for HH changes. I dont need my melee HH got buff anymore, so i dont have to prove anything right? You happy now?
Paladin doesn’t “need” anything, it was simply the first build that popped up in the search. Here’s another:
But after seeing your reaction, I’m sure it doesn’t really matter what video gets posted 
Indeed you don’t.
But without the evidence, it is very likely that no one will care about your topic - like with the topic you found.
I’ll consider it if you provide the evidence
Please, next time do these mental gymnastics before you make a topic, and you’ll save both me and yourself some time.
after all those big talks, long comments, i still dont see your answer to my simple question just like i’ms talking to some feminist. And for you sir, before give a comment to other people’s feedback, please use your own exp and get straight to the point, not only you save us time, but also make other people want to build a much better community, and not have to deal with some kind of toxic and “questioning-only” feedbacks like yours. That kind of attitude make people just never want to go to a forum and communicate with other players. Thank you sir
I’m sure ad-hominem will definitely help you prove your point. 
What question, the “why caster better than melee version” ? Because the world isn’t an equal place