There is something along that lines, but that is basically meaningless talk without a substantial information of how paradox classes differ.
If they can fish, chop trees, and smash rocks to get loot and experience, then yes, that is a unique functionality and gameplay loop.
If it’s a class that gets a random skill combination every time they enter an echo, that’s a nice gimmick, but doesn’t change the core gameplay of click button, monster death, walk over to pick up loot, repeat.
The question is: does it do anything different than other classes, or is it just another variation of the exact same?
Sure right now we are giving feedback and point out stuff. We need to see the final product. But with all the rumbling going on EHG has every chance to take it to heart and don’t contradict themselfs anymore.
To me things are different. Imagine they introduce a class that handles ressource managment different and they some kind of combo system no other class uses. That’s new mechanics from my point of view.
Yes you can say everyone is klicking stuff to kill and loot it and if this stays the same everything is fine. That’s completely up to you.
Some people do. Others simply vent frustration, and use false claims and conjecture to spread gloom.
Wrong. There are some that rather have EHG shut down their studio than changing their monetization strategy to become profitable and keep all EHG staff in their jobs.
If wishing for people to lose their jobs isn’t ill will, I don’t know what is.
Then do the good work and point out what is false objectivly and dismantle what people say if it is an issue for you.
Sho me one who wishes them to suffer, die, have terrible accidents or whatever. I see people who want EHG to crash and burn but so far I haven’t seen anyone wishes the devs ill but only the company. I dislike Amazon and would laugh my ass of if Amazon would crush and burrn but I don’t want harm upon any Amazon employees… not even Jeff Bezos.
What are you talking about? Play stupid games, win stupid prices. If people mess up and get firered that’s a completely normal thing to happen. I wish all people do a good job and never get firered but if people are incomeptent, don’t keep their word, try to avoid accountability, talk to me in some kind of politican speech, try to change the meaning of stuff they said in the past, make bad descissions and move goal posts then I have 0 issues with that petrson loosing their job…
Let’s make a real life example from my point of view: Lauren Schmidt Hissrich should be firered from her position as a showrunner and executive producer because she messed up big time. Like in the gaming industry nothing is happening and whatever is to blame.
I got fired from many jobs for many reasons but only ONCE because I fucked up while in my training period. Noone who firered me whished me ill. It was a consequence of circumstances or me not performing well or in one fun case me getting ill .
I get it, people sound harsh and depending where you are from you are most likely disgusted with it. To me as a german that’s just another day in the office and nothing special is happening. We are simply in action and reaction terretory here.
If someone is wronged, no matter how small… it’s their own decision to decide on how much of an issue it is to them.
They were wronged, weren’t they?
You’re not one to decide if this wrong is better then the other wrong… we can argue ‘I wouldn’t go that far’ and also some behaviours are generally unacceptable (direct threats for example). But the scale of it is not on you to decide. There is not right for that.
Say if someone gets a wardrobe with a glass front and something underneath that. Now the whole thing comes and is absolutely amazing… but… there’s one small scratch at the glass.
Is that person now allowed to complain about that? You might not take issue at it, and that’s your right. But it’s as much the right of the person which wanted a perfect glass-front… and now complains and demands them to take this glass back with em, order a new one which costs over 100€ and pay their worktime out of their own pocket for fixing it up.
And you know what? The second person is absolutely in their right to do it.
First of all… that was a generalization with the intrinsical agreement that there are exceptions. No need to voice it out extra, it’s a given.
Also absolutely the right of those people. And as for your question: It’s not ill-will… it’s simply not caring.
It can go 2 ways there:
Either they simply don’t care and won’t participate in a ultimatim and have it rather go down the drain. Which… kudos to them, is the right decision as it enforces proper actions for future developers since they can’t hope to be bailed out of bad decisions. Reduces the mismanagement as the leeway is less.
And the others actually argue that a company which doesn’t uphold what they promise has no right for existence at all and shouldn’t hence exist. So it being better overall for them to shut down right away.
Which is also fair.
Don’t attach ill-will to things which have alternative explanations. And yes, the direct shuttering is something which I also don’t support as we’ve had examples of great turnarounds like No Man’s Sky… but the path to hell is paved with good intentions after all.
Your disconnect between the (endangered) well-being of a company and its employees is astonishing.
The banality of evil. Not caring about the consequences of what you do or ask for.
We’ve gone over this multiple times. They did not promise free content forever under all circumstances. Sure, there might have been a statement in discord that doesn’t include any disclaimer, but their most official announcements I could find had.
Aside from that, common sense dictates that this would be a naive promise at best and should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Insisting on upholding a ‘promise’ naively given (meaning they not always included the disclaimer that they might have to change policies at some point if other monetization strategies fail) is a petty act of taking advantage, especially if it comes from people who already had hundreds of hours of fun with the product.
So to not be evil I HAVE to support every struggling company in the world, otherwise my inaction endangers the employees employment, which harms them.
I’d get your point if it was people looking away when someone is murdered next to them, but now I have to save every company from going bankrupt too?
No. You don’t need to save every struggling company in the world. Just think twice about the consequences of what you ask for or what you do, and whether it’s proportionate to the severity of what the company did.
Be aware that the failing of a company affects the employees. If you actively demand that the company rather goes bankrupt than changing pricing policy, then you actively demand that people lose their job as a consequence.
So far, EHG has announced nothing that is inherently outrageous business practices, like gambling boxes, or microtransactions that allow to craft BIS items while the crafting itself stays a gamble (you never know how much you have to invest to actually get what you want), etc.
Not taking over responsibility which is not yours isn’t ‘evil’.
It’s sanity.
You misunderstand the difference between that and goodwill. Goodwill is to go beyond the responsibilities. Doing more then mandated under the baseline social contract.
You have every right to go a step beyond.
You have absolutely no right to tell someone they have to do so, that is actually evil, just to mention that here.
The reasonable expectation basis and the lack of forewarning and alternative methods provided absolutely does lead to that notion though.
Everything beyond is up for discussion definitely… but that the expectation was provided is a non-argument still. It was so heavily implied at best that it was taken as a guarantee by a surprisingly vast amount of people.
This alone points to a massive miscommunication by itself. Which can be excused, absolutely. But for that other stuff has to make up for it, which is not present.
If person A steals 2 € it’s wrong but if person B steals 20€ it’s even more wrong. things shouldn’t be blown out of proportion. If someone makes a fuzz about little things they are simply annoing.
Yeah and if you read all I wrote you might understand why but to me it looks like you are nitpicking or challanged.
I ask them to do their job and if they fail at what they want money for they go down. Action and consequences. Who is at fault here? Customers who feel like they don’t get what they paid for because comapny A isn’t keeping what they said or the company not listeining and doing nothing/little to provide a good outcome? For me it’s obviously the companys fault.
That’s called moving the goal posts. Wishing that a company shuts down & makes everybody redundant is most definitely ill will.
But that’s not what some people are asking for. An individual being fired because they aren’t as good at their job as their employer needs them to be is very different to firing everybody because the people making the decisions made poor decisions.
Except that’s not what people are asking for. They want group accountability for individual mistakes.
And randos on the internet wishing you were made redundant because others in the company made poor decisions on where to allocate resources would be punishing you & wishing you ill. “Wishing someone ill” covers a broad swathe of options, not just death or comparable.
For a Karen, perhaps. If you can’t see the difference then that’s on you.
It really is. “Simply not caring” is a passive thing, wishing for people to loose their jobs is more active. It’s different in English, you’ll just have to accept that.
Yes, it’s a surprising lack of empathy & compassion especially from someone who’s been made redundant before. Maybe it’s “just” a social thing.
Like wishing that everyone in a company were made redundant?
I don’t think you quite got what he was saying.
It’s not & as a European I’d have thought that you’d have understood given what’s happened over the last century or so (that none of this is “evil”, incase you didn’t get that).
Absolutely so! But that’s the case because in comparison to yourself it seems too severe.
If someone complains that their 2€ pen was stolen then you would find it annoying as they’re making a fuzz about things. But if you know that pen was the last keepsake from someone which they can’t contact anymore then it suddenly looks different, doesn’t it?
Same with anything. Having great experiences together with friends and now they all leave because half of them doesn’t want to pay more then they were asked for? Now the whole community you built up breaks apart because the company was at fault there. Now it also makes more sense for example.
Or someone - like me - which is extremely strict about some distinct principles, trying to find some sort of ‘order’ in this world to go by as otherwise life’s chaotic beyond end. Now that part is taken away. Also suddenly more reasonable.
It’s not always the size attached to it but the meaning more then anything.
it is not inherently as I explained above. Just to mention that here.
Sure, it seems like ill will for the workers at EHG… but plainly spoken it’s a choice between a long-term outcome of many people having a slight downside versus some having a immediate one. First affecting you personally on top so it commonly weights more for many.
Not to speak that it’s the result of the organization and the employees themselves are just on the receiving side of bad leadership. Sucks… but welcome to being at the bottom rungs, you#re reliant on the top to do well.
If the company does shit then absolutely it is the same thing.
Also are you going out of your way to support a company which does any sort of crap just to save the workers there? That’s absolute backwards thinking. It’s enabling shit and that’s all it is.
Play dumb games win dumb prices.
What you’re arguing for is for example if Amazon says ‘we’re now demanding 30% of your total order as a fee or we’ll have to fire 80% of our employees’ and you go along ro grasp your hands together saying ‘Oh no! Those poor souls! I better order extra much now so they can keep their job!’
You’re not a charity… if you want to be then go ahead, that’s your choice. But once more: Don’t fucking try to enforce others to go beyond the baseline social contract. That is not okay. Never was.
Neither here is the universal problem solver of the world, not our responsibility. So not taking that on is fine and acceptable.
Are we asking GGG to take responsibility for what EHG did? No?
We’re asking for EHG to take responsibility for what EHG did. Nobody gives a shit that EHG is made up from several people… EHG is the ‘individuum’ here, tough shit that your job is reliant on dumb decision makers.
I was made redundant thrice in my life.
And I can say twice I was absolutely on the side of it happening. Sucks for me, sure… but the companies were doing crap, hence the outcome is crap too, only as expected after all.
You don’t have to take responsibility for others once more, that’s not a baseline demand in society and I’ll keep pushing that in since it’s a disgusting thing to ask for.
The last time? Idiots doing idiotic decisions and regretting it afterwards. Didn’t help me but made me grin as I told em.
Made up a bit for it.
So… should I empty my bank account to uphold the company?
Wait… there’s hundreds of games on Steam with dedicated developers trying their best! Go ahead, buy em all! Now! You gotta make sure that those poor souls aren’t going jobless!
Don’t you have empathy & compassion?
Plainly spoken this thought process is utterly sickening there. It has nothing to do with compassion and empathy. You can feel pity for those people… but that doesn’t demand you going out of your way to cause a negative for yourself to uphold the idiotism of those people above em.
You don’t fucking keep positions filled which aren’t needed. Business is not a damn welfare program.
Really?
So someone telling me I have to do stuff for others against my will and to my detriment is right? Mandated public service basically?
That’s what the government is for to organize that shit… not me. Not my damn responsibility. Every individual here isn’t a damn welfare but you’re asking them to be. ‘Think about those poor souls!’ Yeah… who thinks about us customers then outside of us? Sure, go ahead and defend a multi-million company for the sake of the workers there.
If a company fails then workers become jobless. Simple as that.
If you don’t wanna risk becoming jobless because of others then get self-employed and do the shit those people failed at properly… you’ll stay afloat at least.
Up to you… not anyone else’s responsibility.
I know in the US the jobmarket is a shit-show… but I’m also not responsible for damn world-peace. I can barely keep my own home properly together, so plainly spoken: Fuck off with that shit.
Don’t know if there is a difference in the mindset here. Where I’m from this is called getting what is deserved without any intent. Sure some people will have ill intends others will have their point prooven but without someone saying “Crush and burn you pathetic human scum you are good for nothing and I wish the plague upon you for no valid reason!” ill intend would never be on the table here.
Yeah but if I worked at EHG I would look for a new job for at least some months by now. If I descide I stay on a sinking ship I’ll drown at some point or not if things go back to normal. It would be up to me if I trust in the managment or if stay on the railroad while a train is coming.
Yeah but who should take the blame at this point? We can only say EHG because we have no insight in the process. We can’t point at anyone and EHG as an entity made the descissions they made. People effected by this can take their own actions and stay aligned with it or move on. Noone is tied down there I guess. As long as noone says “I’m accountable for this and take my leave because I messed up!” we only can talk about EHG.
I once worked for Siemens and noone would hire me because I worked for Siemens. Took some time to find out why and to react accordingly. Was everything involved with Siemens at fault for it? Nah! Still it was a death sentence at the time for future work in the field. The only one accountable for this was myself. I should’ve done my homework before working there and what it implies.
That’s a real far fetch. So I could say someone has ill intend because he didn’t sadi “good morning” so he’s whishing me no good. So after googeling a bit I’ll never use this phrase ever that’s far to stupid an applicable to everything… this makes equaly little sense to me then calling people a whatever phobe just to throw arround buzz words.
I think we can throw this into the same box as the broad stroke that “ill-intend” is. People who say EHG should suffer for example are most obviously talking about the people who messed up and not the whole entity. If we are nitpicking we can do this both ways and reach no goal.
So after all… yes it would be nice if people were more specific if they think Judd should suffer consequenses (just as an example) or everyone who nodded along bad descissions or the whole of EHG. Maybe that’s why Kulze is up the fence as well because in Germany saying “XYZ is a hellhole and should be purged from earth” is a rather normal thing to say a company while only talking about the brand and noone specificly. If person A in this company is accountable for a downfall we directly talk about said person. So while in one part talking about the comapny as whole we talk about noone involved but just about the name of the brand. A good example might be Tesla while Elon did his thing in america. So Tesla was the laughing stock and people made fun, rude remarks and whatnot about it and wishing the brand Name ill, not a specific person involved whe ntalking about Tesla. Some people talked about Elon directly for this regard and never a worker on a conveyor band was meant with it. maybe there is some kind of difference in the worldview there. For me it’s normal useage of words to say “EHG should be held accountable for the errors they made because actions have consequnses.” Instead of, for example “Judd should be held accountable for the place EHG is in!” because I don’t know it it is his fault. Leagaly I can get into troubble over here pinning the state EHG is in on one person wrongly so maybe that’s why we say things as we do.
That highly depends on the situation. If someone loses a keepsake it’s always bad but that’s why I story my keepsakes securely.
Yeah but it is always subjective vs objective and that’s why we have this discussion. We can’t point our finger on a specific individual so we talk about the entity as a represent for everyone who did something wrong in our subjective perception. We can’t make objective statements outside of “they said completely different stuff back in the day.”.
I wrote a bible up there about talking about brand vs specific ppl in germany. Is this something you do as well or know as well? Because if so we have a bit of a cultural thing to solve first because for me everything starts to make sense little by little given what Llama is saying and how to use “ill-intend” according to language and definition pages on the internet.
No, you & Macknum are arguing in defense of removing an entire company’s worth of people’s livelihoods.
That’s because it is. You, personally (& I know you’ve said that they should be fired because you believe they are incompetent), don’t want them to earn a wage to feed themselves or their families. You sure that isn’t ill will?
As I said before, “just to put that there”, ill will covers way more than just wishing bodily harm to people.
Strawman, never once did I mention GGG.
No, the employees are the “individuum” here. And your lack of compassion and empathy is stagering.
And you’ve learned nothing of empathy? That maybe the kind of individually focussed “me me me” mentality you defend might possibly be related?
You don’t have to be callous either.
Obviously not, but arguing that it’s a good thing that people loose their jobs is hardly a nice thing. One might almost call it “ill will” towards those people… Did I at any point say you should? Go find a point where I did, otherwise you’re just coming up with strawman arguments again.
I never said you should. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.
Nobody is saying that. You’re either missunderstanding or not paying attention.
All I’m saying is that wishing that people loose their jobs is a dick move & “ill will”. That’s all.
It’s possibly a language difference.
Yup, that is a choice each employee needs to make.
That’s what some people have said.
And yes, people are dicks online & like to throw words around because they’re used to doing that.
Oh, sorry, was I supposed to be compassionate towards that? Funny how that works.
Now a serious question:
What the fuck are you on about?
Imagine Nestle goes ahead and does extra big shit you don’t wanna support anymore.
So now ‘to make sure the poor employees’ keep their work you gonna keep on buying from em?
Even if you cannot support what they do?
Because of the workers?
Grow the fuck up, that’s not how a business works. Business is not based on fucking welfare, there’s welfare for a reason… is when you’ve gotten unlucky and are out of a job because business fucked up.
You as a damn individual are not responsible to uphold those people, actually you’re a detriment to society if you do it out of that specific reason you stated.
Why?
Because you further the existence of bad quality for customers and allow companies to keep doing that at no cost, hence causing a overall reduction of quality and a worse experience for everyone the longer it progresses.
Oh for fuck’s sake…
That’s slander by the way.
I don’t give a single shit about any individual worker there. I’m not mother theresa… I don’t know anyone there personally, they are not my concern plainly spoken.
Not giving a shit is very different from ‘ill will’. The second has what we already had discussed shortly ago, and that is intent.
No, I don’t intent for them to go to the streets.
I just don’t give a shit that it’s a side effect. It’s not my direct action and will for that to happen though. Optimally they get absorbed into another developer group under Krafton and they can work on as if nothing happened from Day 1 to Day 2. Hurray!
But if it doesn’t happen? Not my responsibility still.
We’re talking about the responsibility of one entity here. That entity is EHG.
That this entity is comprised of several people is of no matter.
It’s individual responsibility.
EHG did shit, EHG has to deal with the results.
If it would be group responsibility then PoE or TL:I would’ve to stand up for the mistakes of LE.
Your argumentation line is utterly out of the left field here.
Once more, we’re talking about the ‘concept’ of the company.
The company did shit, the company has to deal with it.
It’s disgusting to think because it has further effects you can simply handwaive off responsibility.
That’s individual generosity and goodwill. It has nothing to do with the core concept of responsibility itself.
And once again responsibility is the fundamental societal contract. Anything beyond is a bonus but not mandatory.
You get the basics and you thank others for any step beyond. Simple as that. You don’t take it as a base premise and attack others for not going ‘the extra mile’. That’s disgusting and I’ll stand by that. It’s one of the most apalling social concepts as it’s the basis for how unpaid overtime, peer pressure into detrimental actions and much more comes to pass.
Empathy is not actionable. It’s understanding and sharing the emotional burden. It’s not a physical action like giving someone money. Which you’re asking here for in this case. ‘Give EHG more money so their poor workers don’t loose their job’. Well… fuck em, I use my money to support myself and those in my personal environment, that’s hard enough to handle already, everyone else can starve for what I care.
Doesn’t mean I want em to, just means I don’t want to burden myself with extra things which are vastly behind my responsibilities.
If you’re so ‘empathic’ then why the actual fuck are you here and not in friggin bangladesh giving away all your possessions to feed starving kids there and teach them how to support themselves in the future?
Because that’s the end-result of your ask… so don’t hold this ‘holier then thou’ shit over others. And even then you’re still in no position to do so because self-sacrifice is not in the basic societal contract and hence not to be expected. You can always hope for it, and it’ll happen… but you cannot ask for it.
I act on the things in my surroundings, piss the fuck off with anything beyond that. Don’t care.
Once more, utterly apalling. I’ve helped people out of suicidal thoughts. I’ve supported emotionally and financially people I know beyond what 99% of humanity does to each other.
And you wanna tell me I should care for some randos I’ve solely got a business relationship with and use the energy direly needed for what’s going on around me rather for someone I don’t know and hence don’t give a single shit about?
If that’s callous then I’ll gladly be so. We need vastly more callous people in this world then, misguided empathy is extremely dangerous just to mention. You need to know when to take action and when not, not just blindly ask people to rush forward.
When and where have I argued that it’s a good thing for someone to loose their job?
It’s solely a side-effect of the thing I state I won’t mind to happen.
I don’t ask for ‘tear this company down!’. I stated it’s up to everyone on their own to go beyond the expected amount, which by the fucking way doesn’t even state if I’m personally included or not.
Plainly spoken if I’m urged to go the extra mile though then I generally don’t want to, just saying.
But in personal absolutes for me? Depending on the state of the game when the expansion happens I’m willing to pay for a expansion. I’m unwilling to pay for a class no matter what and I’m also unwilling to have any form of P2W in the game no matter how small. The factor which makes me play LE compared to PoE was (as it’s loosing parts of it) twofold. Offline mode (hence permanent ownership) and the complete lack of any functional in-game purchases of any kind.
So why should I care for anything beyond that? Once more… do I look like a damn welfare program?
So why are you asking me about it?
Why are you urging me emotionally about it?
That’s what I find disgusting and why I state it repeatedly. You got no damn right to do that to anyone, ever.
Oh, but otherwise I’m callous and lack empathy, don’t I?
So, which is it?
Yep, then re-read maybe because I didn’t even do that.
Unless you wanna twist ‘not caring’ into an active action again.
As I said above… that’s why we say “nestle is kind of evil.” arround here. We never talk about a specific person (not even the CEO or the board or a nemploye) but about the brand, the name Nestle so to speak. It looks like it’s a different thing in english speaking countrys. Come on that’s rather obvious right now ^^.
On top of it I guess we think employes should do the reasonable thing and get a new job instead of staying with companys that are questionable BUT I at least get it. It’s not easy to find a good job and it’s important to bring food to the table. That’s why we most likely never think in depth about employees because you have to do what you have to do.
This is no excuse and not making things better but take a look at the conversation. It seems to boil down to things beeing handled differently elsewhere and most likely even in some parts of germany as well. So what we have here is a missunderstanding .
So Kulze everyone speaking against us saying it’s an EHG issue see everything involved with EHG that’s where they come from. We only talk about the brand so to speak and how the brand fucks things up without including anything to it. It’s like sport shoe company xyz makes nice shoes but sadly said shoes are made by children and that’s not okay. We aim for a brand name so to speak if we can’t point at specific people.
I remeber at one point in a job I had a boss who messed up and I told him so. It wasn’t a comapny problem but a problem with the personal that made things worse.
here we point at the brand Name, like in your Nestle example, because that’s how we do things. My dad bought one faulty Bosch machine and never touched a Bosch machine ever again because it’s Bosch. Not because he got one faulty device because of the label.
Here are just two completely different mindsets meet each other and it’s more like a cultural debate then anything else because we talk about the same thing in a completely different matter.
So for the sake of it we could simply say “Everyone who is involved in this mess that makes things worse from our point of view should take their leave or change their mind so things can get better because right now things aren’t looking good.”. I get it that’s overcomplicated and kind of far to much mental gymnastics for me personaly but I’m not here to debate language and cultural differences but the Problem EHG has created one way or another and how people talk about it.
Noone, from my point of view, is wrong here but I see that the way of thinking and talking from my blunt german mindset to whatever other persons are from might be misunderstood or interpreted in way that makes me look evil. I don’t care to much about that BUT at the long run it makes things worse because we talk with each other about almost nothing while there still is the elephant in the room about what EHG is doing, where it is coming from and why they still refuse to openly communicate.
No, just keep it proportionate. Don’t blow everything out of proportion, like with your Amazon example. Or Nestlé.
EHG didn’t do extra big shit. They didn’t poison thousands of people, they didn’t cause a natural disaster, and they didn’t cause anything that cleaning up will cost the public billions.
No, that’s not what is being talked about.
There is a difference between stopping to support a company, and actively advocating (and suggesting legal action) so that they rather go bankrupt instead of allowing them to change a pricing model.
I didn’t tell you or others that you have to do anything. I’m merely stating how I perceive what people are doing, and I advocate for not being as much of a dick to others.
That was the first one to pop up on a search without having to search for synonyms for “fired”.
Repeatedly, when you say things like “sucks for them, tough luck when you fuck up”.
No, I’m not. Please go back & re-read my posts 'cause I’ve never said that. You know how you say you’ve not said stuff & get all huffy (like above)? What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
And it’s disgusting to say that everyone should be punished equally.
It’s quite a bit of mattering. Can you point to me how EHG makes decisions? Is it some hive mind or specific individuals? Are EHG something like the Borg?
No, because neither GGG nor XD are part of EHG, they don’t make decisions for EHG. Judd & the rest of the senior leadership team at EHG make the decisions at EHG. EHG are not a body in the same way that a human body is a conglomeration of cells. Employees do not suddenly loose sentience & the capability to make decisions when they join a company. When people on the internet say that a company should be burned to the ground for making bad/evil/whatever decisions, that’s actual people who are making those bad/evil/whatever decisions, not some non-corporeal entity.
You mean the one that I’m not making? Have you ever worked for a large company before? Did decisions just magically appear out of thin air or were individual people making the decisions (jointly or severally)?
Yeah, I get that but to me it feels like that makes it “ok” (or less bad perhaps) for people to make those kinds of unethical decisions because they can hide behind the brand/company. Fundamentally, it’s always people making decisions & I don’t think it’s right to let them hide behind the body corporate. IMO, it’s only be taking personal responsibility for the decisions we make that society can move towards a place where that kind of shit happens less often.
LoL this made my day but I guess this will go in circles for an even longer time now. I said my part out loud and at least tried to shed some light on this topic and the viewpoints where I come from. have fun going in circles… that’s one way to stop the hatred towards EHG for sure .
I think it’s unethical to abuse countries where families need to send their children to work because they need money. At the end (oh boy this sounds evil for sure) they make the poorest even poorer because they can’t use child labor anymore because they are called out for it.
I would LOVE if the people who mess up beeing hold accountable. Without going into detail or talking about politics. We have a politican here in germany who fail up. Did some shady deals ws draged through the news about it and nothing happened to him and he got promoted so to speak.
As long as everyone with enough influence and money is getting away nothing will change. The redacted Epstein files might proof this point sadly if we ever see them.
I think the saying “The fish smells from the head.” is a thing in other languages as well and not only in germany. It’s sadly fitting.
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