The Lightning Elementals and siege golems attacking from off-screen is technically correct, but
A) they only use telegraphed attacks with such a range, which IMO is totally fine, because you don’t get “surprised” by projectiles.
B) they only attack you when you pulled them, which is approx 1 1/2 screens
The Meruna Ogres you mentioning can hit you via targeting minions, that’s true.
But I think their wave only has range approx 1 entire screen (depending on your resolution).
Speaking of resolutions:
This is probably also a thing to consider, when giving feedback.
People using non-widescreen resolutions will have a much harder time.
While people using UWS will have literally a game advantage.
So you agree that those two mobs can & will do a “first strike” on your character while they are off screen before you are aware of them, thanks. 'Cause that’s the opposite of what you said earlier:
Apart from the two that do exactly that…
I don’t have a problem with it since it’s only 2 mobs & they have big telegraphs that you can avoid. But your two quoted comments directly contradict each other & we both know which one of them is correct!
Well, that’s on you, but I’m pretty sure a)they can damage you & b)they’re coded as attacks (or possibly spells) in-game. There is no “telegraph” as a separate type of thing that mobs can do.
I think the original topic may needs to be split into projectiles and telegraphs coming from mobs located off-screen.
I can agree that having several mobs casting telegraph stuff at you can be a bit frustrating. For example having multiple Light ages pulled, that cast the Meteor can be very stressful because you constantly need to dodge.
But in general mobs throwing telegraphs at you is not an issue for me personally, even if they are slightly off-screen.
And those mobs that do such things from off-screen are usually still within 1 1/2 screens.
BUT
Mobs throwing projectiles from off-screen at you should not be a thing.
And I think LE does a good job with that.
There are very few mobs that have so much range that their projectiles can come from off-screen
I feel it’s OK for enemies to attack from off-screen as long as they have been on-screen at some point (i.e. the player knows they exist). After all, the player’s attacks can murder things off-screen so seems fair enough.
yeah, well i shouldn’t be able to kill things off screen, because, they are off-screen.
as for mobs which telegraph, yes i’ve seen the big yellow circles. that’s not an issue.
and no, i was not "pulling " a mob along.
i would stop. and the void slinger or whatever it was would sit, off screen, invisible, and throwing projectiles at me.i move, it follows. repeat. i didn’t keep “good notes” because it happens so often i find it surprising that i’m seeing comments implying that it doesn’t actually happen that often. so maybe it is a screen resolution issue (i’m using 1920x1080)
I’ll try and keep better track of what is happening and report more detail.
Maybe it’s an issue from which direction the attack takes place.
We have an isometric perspective that let’s us see a bit more what is on the top side of the screen.
Also the aspect ratio makes us see better what is left or right.
You will be more aware of what is coming from the top left or right corner than what is coming from the centre bottom.
Its relative obvious when you take the example of acid flask with the rogue. Just try to throw them to the corners of your screen and see how different the range seems to be because of the isometric perspective.
I’m using a Ultra Wide Screen with an aspect ratio of 32:9. Theres nothing that can surprise me if it is coming from left or right. Top and bottom is another story. I dislike areas where I have to walk down because I don’t see shit
This would cripple a lot of builds and/or abilities (e.g. Rain of Arrows marksman). What about ailments like poision and bleed? Just because something has walked off screen doesn’t mean it isn’t there any more, so the player suddenly being unable to damage it makes no actual sense. In the original Torchlight 2, anything that walked off screen ceased to exist and could not be damaged, and it was a serious problem that completely wrecked the gameplay for ranged classes (until they fixed it).
That swirly boys from imperial area , that look like a (one eyed) bone squid and fire a slow moving beam also tend to have a huge aggro or chasing range where their projectiles follow you relentless (more than one screen).
The fact they don’t lose aggro when you’re multiple screen away confirms the aggro radius is huge. Should be toned down by a lot. Anyways glad i can provide some important information to a community tester.
Adjusting the initial aggro/pull radius is definitely an important thing.
But IMO once you pulled a mob, if they follow you indefinitely, that is a good thing, because it puts alot of pressure and decision making on the player :“Should i deal with this mob now, or run through and risk it coming from behind on the next dadngerous pack”.
Actually i am not sure if mobs lose aggro in normal/story maps.
In MoF you literally can pull the entire map, since mobs don’t lsoe aggro at all.
I guess while that can be OK in normal monoliths, it is probably a real problem in empowered. I only did two empowered timelines, the first one was smooth and easy, but on the second one (60->100) I felt the difference and I fought more often instead of running to the objectives.
I don’t think any other ARPG game implemented it this way, probably because it’s frustrating and not fun. Void cultists throwing always crit projectiles from off-screen while you’re trying to retreat doesn’t promote any decision making - it’s just annoying.
I think it’s great decision making to have mobs that are very “annoying” or strong in some regard.
The Voud cultists are super squishy and easy to deal with, so once you pulled them there is great decision making involed IMO.
There was one similar discussion about the Meruna Sirens if you are interested. They are also very annoying because they jump away when you engage them, but i think mob behaviour like this is very intersting, because i don’t want mobs to brainlessly run into me to get slaughtered.
I love pulling mobs around the whole map, kite them to the objective and kill them all together.
If enemies are getting harder in empowered monos, I have to be careful to only pull as much enemies as I can handle.
I don’t see any flaws with the current implementation.
Mobs don’t draw aggro from offscreen. Some of them can hit you off screen, when you already engaged them once. So you should be aware of what enemies you aggro’ed. You can dodge projectiles and have to have a bit if awareness.
People already are just running past all enemies to get to the mono objective as fast as possible. This shouldn’t be made even easier by mobs losing aggro or not being able to hit you, when running by.
So for me the issue only exists if you are playing to aggressive and pull more than you can handle.
Some enemies are more lethal than others and should be focused instead of being ignored.
My experience is only through playing the campaign (for now) so my view is influenced by its difficulty, not the monoliths. Standard difficulty is no difficulty at all, so masochist is more or less close to Elite Grim Dawn difficulty. Controlled pulls is an option, but in the case of the cultists and melee characters, you have to engage at close range and thus pull more monsters that you have no prior awareness of - meaning you must have a reasonable option to retreat. Off-screen attacks work against that.
Also, making something annoying is never a great decision. I’d be very surprised if the devs said it on record that their aim in monster design is to make them aggravate people and make game experience annoying.
There are other ways to nudge people away from this (if that’s even a desirable thing to nudge away) - gatekeeping by strong mobs, teleporting every pulled mob to a “master” mob before the objective, etc.
after a little more play time I have found that the offscreening is not terrible., it happens consistently but infrequently.
I have run into two legitimate situations of mobs that were invisible, i.e. completely off the edge of the screen, attacking with projectiles. In path cases they were on the left/right side. This tells me it’s not a screen geometry issue, since the original situation was a mob off the bottom of the screen.
As for my previous statement about you shouldn’t be able to kill things off-screen, i didn’t mean they can’t die. I mean you shouldn’t be able to target the edge of the screen and do damage by virtue of the fact that it’s sitting “just past the edge”. clearly something that has a DoT attached to it should be able to die offscreen and there’s no reason why that can’t happen.
My question continues to be, and it’s never been answered, i mean generally not specifically with w.r.t to LE, why this happens so consistently. I’d really like to know why this seemingly trivial thing appears to be difficult to prevent.
I’m just hoping the developers can keep in mind that this is an incredibly annoying effect and anything they can do to minimize it would be great. It can put melee builds at a significant disadvantage for obvious reasons. You could get attacked by something you can’t see, and then have to cross the entire screen and attack. In my off-screen situation i mentioned at the start , the mob was large enough that i died almost immediately (I was hit by a LOT of projectiles, LOL).
