Stop changing offline experience

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/

Found it, still there!

In case of LE we could hence download LE (ID 899770) with the depot ID for the patch… for example the last one before 1.2, which would have the ID 17537014.

That should work for true offline.

And no, the ‘Beta’ function has no costs for developers, also no limitations as much as I know, as long as a depot ID is available you can put that there, they generally don’t get deleted as much as I know.

Yeah, I knew there was a way to do it, just wasn’t sure if the console even existed anymore (seems like they just hid it).

However, you will still have issues with the shared files in appdata, though. Especially with filters that will likely break the game with all the new stuff they added to them.
An older version of the game trying to read them will likely either not show any filters or completely bug out altogether.
Not to mention saves made in “future” versions.

Yeah, backwards compatibility is not there. But! The file problem is not, Steam verifies for the specific version, so it overwrites whichever files are the wrong state.

So that shouldn’t cause problem, save-files will absolutely do though.

It was always intended to be an online game (it’s the first feature).
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lastepoch/last-epoch

Yea for the kickstarter. I couldn’t find the Reddit posts before that… sorry for no source.

It was also abundandly clear in EA and always the direction of it. Before 1.0 not even a ‘true offline’ mode existed.
And with 1.0 it was also absolutely clear that it is a live-service game with a offline mode. Not the other way around (since that’s a unfeasable business model then, sadly).

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for LE specifically, i would contend that they’ve always made the game with online being the main game mode from the start.

the fact we have offline mode is something i appreciate greatly. of all the modern d-likes in the markets, LE/EHG really is at the top for me.

theres just so many things that LE does right and makes player experience, simply superior

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Not correct. The plan going all the way back to 2018 kickstart was to be an online live service seasonal based game. We the players didnt influence this. That was the plan from the start

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i m waiting to see EHG make a statement on how they want to implement seasons moving forward.

one of few reasons i m not touching LE much nowadays is because i dont want to amass my wealth on legacy, then have to be forced into a reset realm just to access seasonal content.

currently legacy realmers can access seasonal content. i want that to stay and i want assurance it will stay.

You are not the only one that likes how its being done. Tbh i agree. Its different than poe and diablo. Imo its also a good thing. Imo a fresh start should be cuz u want that. Not because of content locked to leagues or seasons only.

Id like to see EHG do a middle ground to poe and diablo with seasons. Like EHG did with Abby in season 1. Lock it to season for a week or if killed first then unlock it for all modes of play vs locking said content for the whole league or season

Edit. What im saying is they could still do the poe route or even diablo route. But say maybe having temporary content thats a majority available to all game modes but some parts are locked to season mode like abby was in season 1. Example being is poe where if i remember right league mechanics had a pinnacle boss of sorts to them. In LE everything would be available ti all modes just not that boss for 1 week or killed by anyone the first time then unlocked for all.

Kinda a hybrid style of leagues or seasons mike has talked about this style before. Although hasnt said much about it. Was an idea thrown out there at one point

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theres a thread about it.

LE already implements this hybrid system. all i want is assurance that they will keep using this hybrid system.

if LE is going to just adopt POE’s forced reset realms to access seasonal content. i would feel the game doesnt cater to me.

i’ve played poe for a decade. i’ve already “suffered” enough and i refuse to participate in any such games anymore.

Standard league/ Legacy realms ftw!

“A” thread? Probably more like 15. But that’s fine, it is an important and interesting subject.

Fair enough. This is your wish.
What I would like is exactly the opposite: a legacy league that doesn’t change too much, where I could evolve in an environment and with characters I recognise. Something stable. Diablo’s name of “permanent” expresses that best. And seasonal leagues in parallel for experimental, temporary fun.
I believe putting everything in legacy straight away seriously limits how far the devs can go in experimenting with weird concepts that may or may not work.
Plus, what’s the point in keeping your characters forever if everything is changed beyond recognition every three months anyway?

That I could agree with! But sadly, with an entirely different definition of what a standard league should be! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

on one hand i agree. but on another, game devs should ideally create seasonal content with the idea that it should be integrated into the game seamlessly.

a good case study is poe.

poe’s league content used to be like this in the early days. the seasonal content gave more loot and more ways to get specific loot but was not too required. for example, rogue exiles, strong boxes, beyond.

one of the main reasons that seasonal content was kept in a reset realm is to “protect the sanctity of standard”.

all the early seasons had always kept “sanctity of standard” in mind. the level of FOMO was minimal. in fact, i felt no FOMO and did not participate in any POE seasonal content for YEARS.

going back to your comment on limiting the dev’s creativity. limitations MUST always exist, both on player side and on dev side. the very notion of limits comes hand in hand with “game balance”. i would argue, if a game devs just goes bonkers every season with FULL creativity, it will be bad for the game. it is likely the sanctity of standard would not be preserved, and the entire seasonal content is ultimately a “keep the players engaged” project which brings no benefits to the core game.

to this we get diablo 4 which is doing just that. you want a game where the devs do not have to worry about creative limitations? thats what you get. every season you gain a new “power”. but by the end of it, its just taken away. its 100% borrowed power. at most the devs would introduce some new uniques that would allow players to have some remnants of that borrowed power back into the game, but it’s very hollow.

if i m reading you correctly, you like the idea of permanence. and thus you’re similar to me where you like playing in a permanent server setting.

in diablo 4, before the first season, players were strong. blizzard in all their wisdom knew if they wanted to go “full creative” in their seasonal content, they had to make it in a way that didn’t trivialize the game. so they NERFED everything. players lost maybe around 40-50% of their power. whenever you played in a new season, you were given powers that gave you back that 40-50% power that you lost.

newer gamers who do not know the history behind the game do not know or have forgotten. or simply chose not to care. that is the extreme of having a fully seasonal game with full creativity without limits. and in case you’re wondering, NO standard players get NO POWER in standard. the nerf that they were hit with before season 1 has been standardized. since you dont get any seasonal powers in the standard league, you’re effectively weaker than anyone playing seasonal content. there are deluded “d4 defenders” who would say dumb shit like “but you have access to powerful gear”. i can tell you with confidence, even with mid tier gear, a seasonal character could easily outperform a fully maxed out d4 standard character.

to that, i’d say devs NEED to limit their creativity for the sake of their own game/fans. i remember when GGG decided to just go bonkers. they released harvest. chris himself said it might have been a mistake. but they just did it anyway. they ended up reintroducing harvest into core, nerfing it multiple times. where has all the “sanctity of standard gone”?

i would even argue without limits the devs actively HURT the standard playerbase. look at the alternate quality gems in poe. many players such as myself spent a huge lot of effort/resources to get ones that we wanted. one day the devs felt alt quality gems were a mistake and just nerfed them back into regular gems.

with the experience i have playing poe for a decade. i can tell you. devs limiting their creativity can be a good thing. everything needs limits. without limits then balance flies out the window. when balance flies out the window, 50% player base will play a certain class to kill the hardest boss in the game to get one of the best items in the game and likely following a build guide.

one criticism that i have on EHG is, (if i m not mistaken) is that the devs do play the game (which is good) BUT they follow build guides. and instead of nerfing outliers, they created more content to challenge these players. indirectly making it worse for others.

to me i m halfway with you on why how i love permanency. which is i dont need to refarm my gear and i can amass wealth infinitely. to me in a “live service game” we should never assume our characters will always perform the same from beginning till the end.

we should always adapt. to me adapting is one thing i do when playing games. playing a new game, i need to learn the mechanics and adapt to make my build work with the gear i have. its a “mini puzzle” game within the game where i constantly make tweaks to my build based on the gear that i have.

if things get nerfed/rebalanced. i simply adapt. having a wealth of items and crafting materials makes adapting so much easier.

in fact, i would ask you, why are you afraid of change? are you afraid that your build gets nerfed? if so, then the real issue is that you’ve chosen an overperforming build that the devs might need to nerf to maintain balance.

for me i love making my own builds. good devs tend to want to balance their game. i dont like how poe turned into but to give credit due, my weak build did become vastly stronger after the devs rebalanced the game over many years. my build that did 100k tooltip dps now does 2 million tooltip dps, and thats without factoring in buffs. it should be way higher.

personally i feel that players that are afraid of change are the ones that are utilizing OP builds. change should be embraced.

one of my IRL friends had a 90% block build in poe. came back to poe after a few years to see it was nerfed. 90% to 80% can be huge when you have layered defences. his build could no longer perform as a godlike tank even tho it’s just a “10%” value difference. he rage quit.

but that said. i do see the appeal of keeping your build the same until end of time. but the only real way to do that is if it lives in a bubble. no updates, no new content. this could only work in a game that is not live service. technically it could work, but as time passes, this version of the game will be lacking tons of QoL and bug fixes. you’re also effectively locking yourself out from new items/uniques/new skills and perhaps even new classes. new enemies to fight etc.

theres so much you would miss out if you want to insist playing in that bubble.

but that said. if you truly enjoy that method, i would prefer if EHG give players like you to play in that bubble. but perhaps based on season. for example. you can install LE “Season1” patch. and enjoy the game as is from that season.

the caveat is that any progress/gear acquisition in any of these seasonal bubbles will stay in the bubble. no transferring of anything, and it will be offline only.

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Great post, you understood me perfectly.
And while I disagree with some aspects of what you say, your point of view is perfectly valid and well argumented.

I would just like to clarify one thing:

Funny, that’s at least three people in this thread talking to me about nerfs when I mention change. I guess PoE-like players only care about power. But in fact, I don’t give a hoot about nerfs or boosts.
What I hate is coming back to a “blank” character. When I tried to relaunch PoE in standard, all my characters show up with 95 passive points I need to re-assign because the tree has changed. I literally cannot play, at all, without spending time studying a new tree and rebuilding my character.
In LE I am very attached to my very first character, a paladin. They say you never forget your first one… Sadly, I am certain that if I launch him now, I will find a blank tree, and would have to re-learn a full system of skills before he could even try one mono, because paladin has been changed.
He would probably end up a lot stronger. But he would be a very different character. My first, old friend is gone forever.

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that is a very perfect and valid point. usually when a huge revamp happens characters become literally unplayable.

then again i would say these large reworks are very rare. but i can imagine, its offputting enough that you have to refigure out how to build your character. despite me saying i love adapting. i also do know how tiring it can be.

i totally understand that. i guess when it boils down to it. it really depends on how good/balanced the devs are at making trees.

the issue you’re having heavily boils down to passive trees specifically. as long as the devs do not deviate too much from “original” tree, then they wouldnt need to give players a full reset.

i believe POE1 has already reached that stage. i really cant remember the last time i had a naked character that had its entire passive tree unallocated.

and despite seemingly going against you. i m all for good game design. as long as EHG designs their game well and integrate new features/rebalances in a way that does not disrupt their skill trees, i believe that you will not deal with that issue.

since the game is no longer in EA i think you’re more or less free from this worry for the most part.

…with an equivalent offline mode.

It was advertised as such, both offline and online, on an equal level:

We know that many people really want to either play offline or online and not having your preferred play mode available could make a game unplayable. We want you to be able to play the way you want and with the people you want. We are building Last Epoch with cooperative and competitive online multiplayer, offline single, and LAN support. Form a party of up to five players online to take down the biggest baddest monsters in the timeline or face the terrors alone. The online experience will be crafted to prevent cheating of all sorts.

LAN? Last Epoch as Lan-Party could be fun too.

Fun Fact: LE is not affected by ‘stop killing games’ consumer movement

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It would have never been affected since SKG always wanted future games to have a life-support plan, not the ones that already exist.

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Existing games will be affected too. Not in the legal manner but by pressure from following up or loose face as a ‘upstanding business’.
Basically every game which isn’t a pure subscription based system but has any sort of microtransaction in it will fare the same if the initiative goes through.

And I’m all for it! :slight_smile:

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I agree. I like this hybrid style they have going. 2 pf the biggest diablo likes out there already lock seasonal content behind seasonal play.

I wasnt a fan at first. It sure made me think about why do i even prefer playing in seasonal mode in these games. I realized for me its not the content that comes with it. Its 100% the fresh start. Content isnt why i play seasonal modes.

So having content releases to all like it currently is wouldnt change what mode i play one bit.

What im saying is i think EHG should lean into this and make seasons available to all which imo would make LE even EHG stand out from the top dogs that lock content behind seasons. It would be imo in there best interest to let players play in thier prefered game mode without needing to play in a mode they dont want to play in just for content

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